There is no such thing as orderly looting
Looters arm themselves with stolen weapons, terrorize state police, lay siege to Children’s Hospital, and are reportedly ransacking vehicles in parking garages.
Defillo said looters were also taking guns and ammunition. “We’re very concerned about that,” Defillo said. “We will maintain order. Let me say that. We will stabilize the situation.” … Authorities planned to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city.
Heh. Any guesses on how long it will be before one gang of looters is traveling around in an armored personnel carrier?
When you don’t immediately begin executing looters, they grow bolder. They then have opportunities to arm themselves. Screw that “allowing peaceful looting” bullshit. There is no such thing. Looters endanger lives by draining personnel resources that could otherwise be used to rescue people. Some of those people waiting to be rescued will probably die waiting, because of looters.
Gov. Blanco seems to not have a grasp of what’s going on. On the one hand the National Guard is unable to confront looters because they’re all involved in the rescue efforts:
Gov. Kathleen Blanco appealed to the White House to send more people to help with evacuations and rescues, thereby freeing up National Guardsmen to stop looters.
On the other hand, the National Guard people is available to stop looters, but isn’t acting:
On New Orleans’ Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.
Gov. Blanco has the power to order the National Guard to do more than stand around and try to keep the looting orderly. She can order the National Guard to do what they’re supposed to and begin shooting looters en masse until the looters realize they must leave the city. Nobody will notice the extra dozens, or even hundreds, of bodies floating in the flood waters.
Instead of seeing people flee the city via the Crescent City Connection, moving as fast as possible along the West Bank Expressway and out of the area on Hwy. 90, what you’re going to see is looters descending the Crescent City Connection like a horde of locusts, picking the West Bank clean instead of trying to leave town. The last thing people want is to come home to discover that their home has survived the storm and the floodwaters, only to have fallen victim to lawless hordes that were allowed to pillage and plunder without interference.
I understand that our government officials are under enormous stresses and working in terrible conditions. But, we expect our government to retain order. And when order temporarily vacates the area, we expect our government to restore, even if it means shooting people whose actions endanger the lives and property of others. Grow a spine, Gov. Blanco. Do NOT arrest looters. Order the National Guard to start shooting them on sight.
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While I have no problem with the locals getting bread, water and shoes, all the looting coverage on TV is inspiring my neighbors to want to hop down there and pick up some stuff. So you may even get out of state looting “tourists”.
What a horrifying post – I feel disgusted enough to comment. How dare you promote such atrocious action – the last thing New Orleans needs is more death and destruction. While looting is a tremendous problem, I doubt that shooting at human beings is the solution. There’s also a little thing called the Constitution and due process which the Governor is obliged to follow. You’re denying their their right to life over criminal acts. There is absolutely no way any politician in their right mind would call for such action.
There are fathers and mothers looting stores to feed and aid their starving dehydrated children and babies – do you suggest we shoot these looters too? You also have to remember that the people who stayed in New Orleans were the poverty-stricken. There’s a bigger reason behind the looting – these are people who are too poor to even evacuate. All of sudden they see access to money and goods, even though it is worthless at this point. What very little they had is now completely and utterly destroyed.
I don’t condone the looting in any way, shape, or form. But it’s essential to understand why it’s there, and where it comes from. These people have been to hell and back, and they wrongly see free stuff as the temporary solution to tragedy.
You idea to shoot looters is silly and nonsensical. Instead of telling the Governor to “grow a spine,” you should attempt to grow a brain and a heart.
Sorry, gotta disagree . . . in a disaster situation, under martial law, armed looters are to be shot on sight.
Um, excuse me, but you CANNOT depend on the gov’ment to always take care of these kinds of problems. I mean, think of it as: survival. Look to the animals for a clue in how these “survival of the fit” plays out.
what an awful and totally inhuman post – the shops/businesses being looted will be insured anyway. and the folks left behind in N.O. are mostly the urban poor underclass, who are either unemployed or live a paycheck to paycheck existence.
with homes gone, jobs gone, and no hope for the future, is it any wonder that these poor folks are trying to make the most of things.
The folks left behind don’t have anyone to purchase those goods from anyway. Who is left to sell to them? I understand doing what you have to do to provide for your family. And, as much as it is possible I think those people should be left to loot in peace. If you need formula and the stores are all abandoned, what are you going to do?
However, in any other case:
“in a disaster situation, under martial law, armed looters are to be shot on sight.”
Agree 100%, absolutely, no doubt.
Shoot them on sight unless they’re carrying food, water or diapers. If they had shot the first ones carrying off tvs, jewelry and firearms the rest of this looting wouldn’t have happened.
I’m sure some of these looted businesses are not insured. Many small businesses can’t afford insurance. I remember during the Los Angeles riots that many small business owners were devastated because they weren’t insured.
It is only a matter of time before they start breaking into homes.
Shoot them on sight unless they’re carrying food, water or diapers. If they had shot the first ones carrying off tvs, jewelry and firearms the rest of this looting wouldn’t have happened.
I’m sure some of these looted businesses are not insured. Many small businesses can’t afford insurance. I remember during the Los Angeles riots that many small business owners were devastated because they weren’t insured.
It is only a matter of time before they start breaking into homes.
“There’s also a little thing called the Constitution and due process which the Governor is obliged to follow. You’re denying their their right to life over criminal acts.”
Karen, the entire city is under marshal law. They have no rights in Orleans Parish, Jefferson Parish, or any of the surrounding parishes currently under marshal law. If they were discerning enough to limit themselves to looting food and water, we might be able to find common ground. But note the title of the post: there is no such thing as orderly looting. They are now stealing guns and non-emergency items. They are now terrorizing Children’s Hospital and looting the vehicles of downtown hospital workers. These are not “fathers and mothers” stealing for their “starving and dehydrated children and babies.” Those people are making good faith efforts to allow rescue workers to help them. They aren’t stealing guns and laying siege to hospitals and terrorizing rescue workers.
Additionally, the most compassionate thing you can do for the lawless hordes is to begin shooting. The survivors will then more quickly turn to legitimate sources of aid, and they will be better for it. Instead, you have people who will desperately try to hang on someplace where they cannot live for any length of time. And then, many more of them who did not have to die, will. In ways more terrible than being shot.
It’s a tough stressful situation all around, but I can promise you three things:
1) the looting will continue
2) people on both sides will be shot
3) racial tensions in the city are going to pushed to the limits, especially once everyone returns
No matter how you feel about it, it’s a sad, sad situation. We can unequivocally condemn the looters, or we can look for motivations; we can suggest draconian measures, or we can try empathy; but it’s awful place to be, either way. Goes to show how fragile society really is.
so if the cops start shooting on sight, wont the looters start shooting back and make a bad situation even worse?
The folks left behind don’t have anyone to purchase those goods from anyway. Who is left to sell to them? I understand doing what you have to do to provide for your family. And, as much as it is possible I think those people should be left to loot in peace. If you need formula and the stores are all abandoned, what are you going to do?
However, in any other case:
“in a disaster situation, under martial law, armed looters are to be shot on sight.”
Agree 100%, absolutely, no doubt.
“so if the cops start shooting on sight, wont the looters start shooting back and make a bad situation even worse?”
I tend to agree. You start shooting looters. The looters are just going to arm themselves and shoot back.
Let ‘em loot.
And start searching neworleans.craigstlist.org for some good deals.
I’m sorry – but I completely disagree. Even under marshal law, the answer is not killing poor, impoverished, tragedy-stricken people. Think about what you’re condoning – more death amidst destructive fatal tragedy. New Orleans does not need anymore dead rotting bodies floating in the water. As JF states, the stores are insured.
What I meant by my due process comment is that no politician in their right mind would call for the shooting of the looters. This is not a matter of a the governor “growing a spine.” Shooting at looters simply cannot be done – #1, it’s still unconstitutional and #2, it is an inhuman solution to a tragedy. It would be met with hordes of future lawsuits and political fallout.
It’s disturbing that people are so ready to support killing others as a solution.
“Shoot them on sight unless they’re carrying food, water or diapers.”
Two problems with this proposal. First, do you expect the National Guard and police to determine on site what the looters are carrying? It isn’t that easy. “Is that an MP3 player or box of tampons you’re carrying?” If you are going to shoot looters on site then you are going to have to shoot ALL looters, not just ones that steal TVs. Second, some looters are carrying both necessities AND extras like TVs. Do they get shot because they needed diapers for the kids, but also took some clothes because their entire wardrobe was ruined by the flood?
So much overreaction here to the looters. What the hell are they going to do with a TV? They have no home to play it in and no electricity to play it.And they have nowhere dry to store it for a later time where they could sell it. The looting is just worthless activity and should be a relatively low priority for public officials. There are exceptions, of course, like armed gangs that shoot at cops. But the merchandise being looted is probably going to end up destroyed by flood anyway.
Wait just a moment J.F…..”make the most of things” is the weakest justification I have heard of for looting.
In a disaster situation, such as the one in NO, the appropriaton of water, food, clothing and other basic survival needs is understandable and totally forgivable. However lets be clear on something: stealing money, valuables, appliances, electronics etc, from homes or businesses has nothing to do with survival or making the most of a situation. In fact it very much causes what is already a “worse” situation to become an abysmal one.
I absolutely do not agree that looters should be shot on contact by police. This would only exacerbate an already chaotic and violent situation. No, of course they should not be shot at, they would only shoot back and a small arms fire battle would ensue, further detracting from relief and rescue efforts. WHile I do not agree with Joe B.’s original post I totally understand his frustration and anger.
Making the best of a horrible situation involves real strength and unity and staying strong and sane when the easiest thing to do would be to just give up and go crazy. There is no excuse or justification for the looting and violence in NO right now…it is greed, selfishness and weakness exemplified.
the looters are stealing t.v.s and guns not food. next they will be looting homes. when the homeowners get back in THEN we will see some looters being shot. AND RIGHTFULLY SO
If these scumbag looters have the wherewithal to break into homes and busineeses then they can certainly get their sorry asses out of the city where they can eventually be taken to a shelter. But they dont want that, they are stealing tv’s, jewlery, electronics….what the hell are they going to do with them in that environment? They are bragging about how society owes this to them. I agree with this post. Just shoot them. If they are armed they are a danger to resue efforts. If they have energy to be looting they should be helping people get out…..
After Fran, things looked hairy here-till Mr. Hill opened his grocery store back up (Bless him!)in the poor Black section. No power, bills figured by hand and they took your word for it about what you had left on your food stamp card (”bring it back when the power is on”) but people calmed right down, did their shopping and waded home. People want a normal life.
You are not killing poor and impoverished people . . . you are killing armed looters, who are arming themselves and terrorizing other survivors. Or is what happened at Children’s and up in Carrolton at the Rite Aid a gag? These folks in their $200 game jerseys and Nikes, carting TV’s, look pretty well fed . . . no, they are criminals, exploiting disaster, and under martial law, shooting looters whether armed or not is practice.
I’m a liberal, but here is the line. You’ve been ordered to evacuate. You have the chance to evacuate. You go thieving instead, arming yourself, and threatening others.
Shoot them. They’ll stop.
Armed looters have to be confronted at some point. Better it be by National Guardsmen and police than by people returning home to collect valuable and leave again, only to be confronted with armed invaders. Because that’s what concerns me about the situation: the West Bank was largely spared the surge floodwater. But my parents will be going back there next Monday if possible to assess their situation and recover what they can. They certainly don’t deserve to be faced with people waving guns in their face and telling them to get out of their own house. Nobody does. But that’s exactly what we’ll see happening if something isn’t done.
“it is greed, selfishness and weakness exemplified.”
not really Holly – all i’m saying is that if you are poor and in a desparate situation, why not loot that TV – after all, you could , possibly, sell it later on or barter it for food. with jobs gone and an entire city underwater, it’s looking increasingly as if the looting is just a matter of survival.
it does NOT compare in any way to the horrendous looting that went on in the L.A. riots – i really do think that this is an entirely different situation.
and the question all Americans need to ask is – why is it that the urban poor of New Orleans appear to have been left behind? did no one give a damn about them? so , to later on start complaining about looters is a bit rich to say the least.
sorry folks – but with a 150mph hurricane bearing down on N.O. the ENTIRE CITY should have been evacuated – not this laissez fair “jump into your car” evacuation that went on.
New Orleans is not, let me repeat, not under martial law. Under the current situation, the state is empowered to use militia and military police as peace officers, but that’s a very different thing from shooting putative looters dead.
The relevant statute provides that milita and military police activated by the Governor “have all of the powers and authority of peace officers, including but not limited to the powers to make arrests, to perform searches and seizures, to execute criminal warrants, and to exercise such other powers and duties of a peace officer as are reasonably necessary to preserve the lives, property, and security of persons.” This is obviously necessary in situations where the civil courts are not open, but it does not give carte blanche to the military to act as they see fit. Could they arrest people suspected of looting? Certainly. Try them in military tribunals? Of course. But shoot persons who do not pose a threat to the lives of others without benefit of trial? Difficult, even setting aside political considerations. Under current law, it would probably be difficult to convince a court that state law trumps Constitutional protections absent at least a Congressional suspension of habeas corpus.
This is, of course, quite apart from the issues of those looters who pose a threat to others, and whether suppressive fire from Black Hawk helicopters would be effective at stopping looting in general.
For christsakes people – where is your compassion and brain? This is not about liberal vs. conservative crap. This is about an idiotic proposal to create more death and destruction in a a city already ravaged by death and destruction.
Keith – the looters are not all armed. They are children, teenagers, and middle-aged people. They are poor and impoverished, and they have just suffered through tragedy beyond immeasurable means. If you look at your tv screens, you’re not seeing white middle/upper-class folks taking your precious tv sets. You are seeing the poor and the black who did not have enough money to even EVACUATE.
They’re looting because they’re DESPERATE. They have no clothes, no water, no gas, no money, no nothing. Anything they grab is something they might be able to use as currency. It’s seen as a solution to tragedy, even though it is not. It’s terrible, and it sucks. But what would even suck more is to add more death and destruction, as well as racial tension and fear, through shooting.
Shooting on sight… interesting in theory; but then again, I think about Jean Charles de Menezes and I wonder if that’s such a good idea.
Are you even concerned about the property being looted? Or, is it that you wish that you could carry out the executions that you’re suggesting the governor of LA give the order. My guess is that you’re basically no different from those looters. While you might not loot you have no consideration for civil law, only vigilante law. And, in my view, that makes you as dangerous as these looters.
The City of NO can do without the type of plan that you propose. I too, am disturbed and angry with the actions of so few. Yes, I did say “few”. While it may be that those we see looting in the news coverage are from impoverished areas of NO that does serve as indictment of all impoverished people in the area.
There are people of a lawless nature in every state of this great country. Do you suggest that every crime, including misdeanor, be met with shooting on site? Or is it only these folk that should be shot?
I hope you’ve had time to re-examine what you posted and realize that a civilized society must endure many things; i.e hurricanes and looters.
We have methods to deal with them without forgetting that we ARE a civilized society.
John
“It’s disturbing that people are so ready to support killing others as a solution.”
We didn’t say “kill”.
We said “shoot”.
:)
I’ve gotta disagree. What should have happened is that evacuations should have taken into account that one-sixth of the people of New Orleans didn’t have access to private transportation, and instead of herding them into the Superdome to die like caged animals, they should have made a point to get EVERYONE OUT. They didn’t, and now they have tens of thousands of people stuck on an island that is rapidly sinking into a sea of polluted, diseased water. Maybe it’s just me being a bleeding heart, but I see absolutely no reason to make a bad situation worse by going down there and shooting people. The TVs, jewelry, etc., it all would have been gone anyway. It all would have ended up at the bottom of the ocean.
May I ask, where is your outrage over the fact that President Bush cut funding to maintain the levees? Where is your outrage that the National Guard is in Iraq and not in LA/MS, flying around and plucking people off their roofs? That you can muster up this sort of outrage over THINGS but not over PEOPLE’S LIVES speaks volumes as to your moral priorities.
Alana,
Well, I’m thinking if you shoot someone, and there are no medical services available, no supplies, no food, and the shot person is surrounded by putrid rotten flooding water and dead bodies, that person will most likely die.
“The TVs, jewelry, etc., it all would have been gone anyway. It all would have ended up at the bottom of the ocean.”
Are you people *reading* these articles? We’re not talking about TVs. We’re talking about large gangs of people overrunning food donations going to shelters and confronting innocent people. Not 13 year olds getting kicks from stealing TVs.
“City security chief Greg Meffert said he was awakened to help form a human chain to quickly unload a state police truck filled with food. “The truck was about to be attacked by looters. …It had state troopers in it,” he said.
In the city’s Carrollton section, which is on relatively high geround, looters commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a Rite-Aid pharmacy.
…Defillo said looters were also taking guns and ammunition.”
GANGS of ARMED LOOTERS. We may not have declaired martial law, but they sure the hell have.
These are not passive people just trying to get by. These are aggressive opportunists who stayed behind to raid the candy store.
J.F., I agree with you about the apparently somewhat ineffective evacuation. I do not know enough about the specifics of how people were told to evacuate and what steps officials took to ensure that people followed the mandate. I does seem as if more could have been done….but hindsight is 20/20.
The excuse of being poor and desperate simply does not wash in regards to the looters. You mention that this looting in NO is different than the looting that took place in L.A. and you are right: it is far more ridiculous and harmful. Ridiculous because they are stealing things for possible future gain when their very lives are in danger. What good is a T.V. for people who do not have homes? WHat are they gong to do with the box of nikes when they get air-lifted out or put on buses? I just don’t get it. It is harmful because it strains the already over-burdened oficials who are attempting to administer aid and rescue people. It is shameful. Absolutely shameful that a police man or fireman who could be rescuing some one will instead be risking his live to prevent theft of toasters and T.V.s. What about the store owners who will all have to make insurance claims? This will be very hard to do with no products left on their shelves to claim. Have you ever had to fill out one of those insurance forms? It is a nightmare.
Looting has so many negative effects that far outweigh any positive effects that the looter may experience. In the end the looter will still be poor and desperate and possible dead.
I’m sorry I do not feel any sympathy for the looters. I feel sympathy for those who have lost their lives, their homes, their jobs, their loved ones and I feel anger towards anyone who would willingly exploit such a situation for their own personal gain no matter how panicked or desperate they may feel.
“May I ask, where is your outrage over the fact that President Bush cut funding to maintain the levees?”
Those levees have been in danger my entire life. My *ENTIRE* 34 years on this planet and then many more, I’m sure, I have heard what poor condition they were in and how New Orleans can not stand a direct hit from a hurricane.
You want to get pissed about something? Get pissed about that. It was always common knowledge when I was growing up that the city was fucked if those levees broke. But where was the city putting the money? Where was the state putting their funding? Where was the planning for the rainy day?
Just as people were enraged at the lack of a tsunami warning system in the Indian Ocean, the people of New Orleans will be when they realize that their safety was put at the bottom of the priority list.
This was preventable.
Never said they were all armed . . . and I only said shoot armed looters, not all looters. And I said that, under martial law, a looter needn’t be armed to be shot.
I’ve been through a few power outages and floods while living in the Channel, and it always amazed me at how quickly law and order would slip.
Hey, let us be honest here. New Orleans has always been about an uneasy tension between haves and have notes and gentrifying renovaters and old-line neighborhood residents . . . if you ever lived uptown outside of the St. Charles-Magazine corridor from Jackson ave. to the park, you’ve gone through the subtle negotiations to keep the corner boys off your block and worked with a neighborhood association to do what the cops couldn’t or wouldn’t do — police your streets.
You’ve heard a window crash in a retail space during a blackout, and you’ve had someone walk up to your porch and offer to sell you stolen property. You’ve ducked when gunfire broke out near a MArdi Gras parade, and you knwo someone who has been hit by a falling bullet fired in “celebration.”
I’m compassionate — it breaks my heart to see people arrested for making off with diapers and baby formula — but law and order slips by degrees, and in the Big Easy it never had far to fall, because was always barely there. It was part of a tenuous balance negotiated by the residents, and a lot of those who helped maintain the balance are not in town now. There is no counterbalance in New Orleans. And now, Peggy Wilson gets her wish from a dozen years ago — troops will be deployed to the city to enforce the law.
These are tough times, but it started with looting, then went to carjacking, and breaking and entering, and is likely leading to murder, rape, and arson or other destruction of property.
It breaks my heart. But compassion will not save the stranded innocent from the soulless guilty.
If you are in NOLA, stop drinking the water. You are absolutely out of your mind! Yes, it is very disturbing that people are taking advantage of the situation. But, I do understand that there are those that are in need of bare necessities. Those are the people that are desperate scared and running out of options. To say looters need to be shot in this particular time is not only ignorant but irresponsible.
TV’s, Dora the Explorer ride’m vehicles, beer, and DVD’s are necessities?
To not look like a total right-winger, NO is not under total martial law. But:
Martial law clarified
Tuesday, 9:02 p.m.
The state Attorney General’s office on Tuesday sought to clarify reports in some media that “martial law’ has been declared in parts of storm-ravaged southeast Louisiana, saying no such term exists in Louisiana law.
But even though no martial law exists, Gov. Kathleen Blanco’s declaration of a state of emergency gives authorities widespread latitude to suspend civil liberties as they try to restore order and bring victims to safety. Under the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, the governor and, in some cases, chief parish officials, have the right to commandeer or utilize any private property if necessary to cope with the emergency.
Authorities may also suspend any statute related to the conduct of official business, or any rule issued by a state agency, if complying would “prevent, hinder or delay necessary action” to mitigate the emergency.
It also gives authority the right to compel evacuations, suspend alcohol and weapons sales and make provisions for the availability and use of temporary emergency housing.
The law gives mayors similar authority, except they do not have the right to commandeer private property or make provisions for emergency housing, according to a background brief prepared by the state Attorney General’s office.
Source: NOLA.com
I’ll be down soon with the Red Cross. God Speed.
I think you guys should read this. Pay close attention to the bottom, where the LSU student describes watching a man die from gunshot wounds while trying to protect his property from a looter.
http://www.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1014&CID=449461
It’s appalling that while my boyfriend’s house in uptown may have survived the storm and any flooding, it almost certainly will not survive abject looting – it’s located about a mile from the new Walmart, where all of the guns were stolen.
So let me ask – how are guns, plasma TV’s and DVD’s okay for the oppressed poor to steal from the big, bad insured storeowners? I’m not trying to marginalize the situation of many in eastern New Orleans – if they’re trying to scavenge for life-saving food and water, even Kathleen Blanco has expressed understanding. But shooting at cops because they’re trying to stop you from stealing electronics?
Somebody said that New Orleans was not under Marshall Law. It is under Emergency Status which gives the law and those the law deems responsible the right to forego any citizens Civil Rights. That means they may be shot and killed on the spot without any repercussions.
Thank you Caiti . . . you put a face to the problem. Values are what carry you through adversity . . .
There are two problems with that – 1) posse comitatus, and 2) the National Guard and police are woefully understaffed until reinforcements arrive to help with the search-and-rescue efforts.
New Orleans has devolved into Escape From New York meets Lord of the Flies – who has the conch, though? It’s certainly not the authorities at the moment…
Just to give you guys some perspective, I live in south Florida. In the past year, I’ve gone through Frances, Jeanne and Katrina. My parents, who live in Pensacola, have endured Ivan and Dennis. My boyfriend and several close college friends from FSU are trapped up north in the state right now, trying to make sense of what has happened.
Disaster illustrates both the best and worst in society. In some cases, there are people who will drop everything to help the recovery efforts. In other cases, there are people who will take advantage of the misery of others. New Orleans seems to be suffering from a rather lop-sided amount of this horrible survival-of-the-fittest mentality.
Martial law. MArshall law is the rules governing the guys by the ropes at the Freeport-McMoRan Classic.
“May I ask, where is your outrage over the fact that President Bush cut funding to maintain the levees?”That was a couple of days ago. I got slammed for that post, too.
And, um, as far as civil law vs. vigilante law, the escalation in looting that we’re seeing here is the result of a collapse of civil law. I don’t suggest that police or National Guardsmen confront looters with a conciliatory tone of voice saying, “Excuse me, Mr. Impoverished Looter, I understand that you were unable to evacuate and that government should have provided you with the means to evacuate, but I have to place you under arrest.”
Citizens have the right to defend themselves, and shooting looters has been a long-standing practice in this country during times of great civil unrest. And had the initial crackdown been brutal and uncompromising, we wouldn’t be seeing the current problem.
I imagine the looters of unnecessary goods are going to be delt with in due time. Get the inocent out of harms way then deal with the outlaws, it’ll be easier. ord for bid hostage situations occuring! Where can they go? they’re stuck for a while and they can’t be rescued with all their “stuff”, well I take that back….small items, jewelry and weapons can be conceled.
but understand too, that the looters are not aware of any of the news information, unless they’re smart enough to find a battery operated radio. They have no clue the enormous forces they are going to be dealing with. I doubt it will fare too well with many in our country or around the world if they are point blank shot down. Now shot after being shot at is another story, and that is gonna happen. I do imagine the seriously dangerous hard core looters will be armed and will try to defend themselves and their loot. Me thinks many are going to suffer of face the consequences of their choices.
Imagine the indignation when an evacuated looter returns to Calliope and finds that their “loot” has been relooted by someone else . . . dang, there is a funny side to this. Thanks for showing me the way to that one, MH. :)
Are you people serious? A parent stealing food for their kids? What was that parent doing last weekend when they should have been leaving town, or if they couldn’t leave, preparing for the storm that was bearing down on them? (ie stocking up on food…) And are you to have me believe that they are stealing TV’s for their kids too? What happens when a parent decides his kids need food more than some other poor sap’s do? Once the stores are empty these people will turn on each other… And what about the reports of the looting spreading with the refugee’s to Baton Rouge and other towns? Lets get this straight, it’s opportunism at its worst and five or ten thousand years of human history have come up with one way to stop it. What exactly do you think the term Martial Law means anyway? What are we to do about these gangs of armed thugs that are attacking hospitals? I’m pretty sure they’re not there to steal narcotics for their children…
I can’t believe the amount of airtime and energy devoted to looters. The loss of some remaining property is insignificant when compared with the imminent death of thousands stranded in the city. Once again the media blows everything out of proportion. You are looking at the world through a very distorted lens and you don’t even know it. (you being the american people) Try watching the BBC or CBC sometime.
Joe B.
You hit it on the head if it dosen’t stop now what then??????????????
James, it isn’t about the property. It is about the lack of dignity and lack of consideration for the larger community that is at issue. New Orleans is largely occupied, at the moment, by people who were “too smart” “too cool” or “too stupid” to leave.
They knew the storm *always* turned and spared GNO.
They thought the “party” and claim to “riding out the big one” made it worth standing in harm’s way.
They can’t be bothered to know what is going on, or to be responsible for themselves or their children by staying informed.
No, no. And for every fool in a house attic we will fly a helicoptor mission to save them. Because saving the fool is placing the community first, even if the fool will not.
The idea behind America, behind western civilization, is that we are better than the law of the jungle.
I decided that reading the response to these posts would help me determine whether I could return to New Orleans. If there ever is a New Orleans again (and I certainly hope there will be). It disgusts me that people have become fixated on murdering looters. The looting of commercial goods has been sensationalized; most looting is for food and water. And if people want to take tennis shoes, so be it! Hell, I don’t even care if people take stuff from my house. Maybe if it isn’t completely flooded, people can drink the water and food I left behind. At this point, I have written my belongings off and am focusing on what is most important: saving human life, not taking it. All governmental energy should be spent on rescuing people, getting them out of New Orleans. I am incredibly fortunate, like all of you, to be sitting at a computer right now. You do not see the majority of Orleanians–who live in dire poverty– responding to this blog. How can anyone sitting in comfort at a computer right now recommend murder over a pair of tennis shoes and jeans?
MSNBC just ran a segment of a reporter talking to a cop who was looting the WalMart . . . evidently the recruitment standards of the NOPD are unchanged from the times of Arnesto Taylor . . . NOPD: Crooks with Badges. :(
So JD, where, exactly, do you draw your line of acceptable crime? If you want, we can send these folks over to take your computer . . . and your shoes.
Ever been carjacked? Huh?
If the majority of New Orleanians live in dire poverty — an exaggeration, only one in five receives public assitance — then perhaps the damn place ought to be allowed to sink in the sea, because for all of its art and architecture and music and culture and cultural diversity and fine food, it is a socially and economically unjust place that exploits the poor.
Blaming Bush for not funding the levees? Come on! You yourself said in your post that all your life these levees have been set to fail in an event such as this. Now as far as I can recall, Mr. Bush has not been president for 34 years.
How about just questioning the decision-making of POLITICIANS? They’ve been ignoring this impending doom for years.. through NUMEROUS administrations. This is not something you can pin on one person or one administration. This is the culmination of years of group denial, folks! If you live/lived in the city and were not active in pursuing a “solution” to the levee problem, you’re as guilty as anyone.
No, what pisses me off is that these looters have no respect for human life or property – it angers me greatly that people trapped in uptown have to fear for their lives not from disease or flooding, but from people running around with 12 gauge shotguns and a chip the size of the Superdome on their shoulders. Did you actually read the link I posted?
It’s EXCELLENT food for thought.
James B,
Unfortunately looting plays a very significant role in disasters like this and we have every right to not only see it on the news, but be outraged by it. It is this exact scenario (massive, violent looting) that caused people to not want to evacuate and leave their houses and belongings behind. So, stuff like this is creates a sort of circular problem. And, it’s not the “loss of some remaining property” that matters so much. It’s the chaos, the lawlessness and disorder that makes an already awful situation that much worse.
I listen to the BBC every night on the radio and it’s a great news service, however they have done a shit job reporting on Hurricane Katrina. Until today their main focus was the price of oil, which is, with out a doubt important but not nearly as important as the more immediate, direct impact on human life.
7:32 Oct. 31, 2005 N.O. Mayor Ray Nagin declares Martial law in the city and directs the city’s 1,500-person police force to do “whatever it takes” to gain back control of the city. He will also enlist the aid of troops.>>>>
Joe B. I would give anything to see the look on your face when the looters start shooting back – at you….
If your baby was hungry and sick you would loot too. I know I would. How dare you suggest shooting desperate people for looting. People down in nola have obviously lost their minds, but so would you and I. Of course the gun toting looters should be stopped, but come on.
Nannette,
The vast majority of the looting seems to be armed gangs roaming the city, shooting at cops and innocent bystanders. WWL reported that a nurse who stepped outside Memorial today was robbed at gunpoint. A cop was shot in the head last night trying to prevent the continued theft of non-emergency items. How can THAT be excused?
No one here, I am sure, supports shooting people who are trying to scavenge to save their families. But this has quickly devolved into a much, much more dire situation. There is a marked difference between running into Walgreen’s to grab water and food, etc., and running into people’s stores on Canal to steal electronics. Unfortunately, the latter is currently more common than the former – with deadly results.
Nannette, if I had a baby, I would have left town.
Actually, I did, come to think of it.
I somehow doubt that any cop who was in the city for the reign of superpredator murders in the 1990s — 1,500 homicides in four years — will be shocked at armed looters firing back . . .
You are right Caiti.
What happen to respect Being a Help to you’r Borther or Sister NOT SUB HUMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Something is REALLY wrong with Joe B. In a situation like this, anyone that believes property is more valuable than human life needs to shoot themselves. Looters are an aside to a footnote of perhaps the largest human and economic disasters in US history.
It’s easy to say “shoot!” when it’s “them.” But
order will not be restored when people are summarily shot. Fear and insecurity will increase.
This is the opposite of social order in a democratic society. If you want an authoriarian dictatorship move to North Korea!
Our property (at least everything I own)is gone.
People that call for executing people mostly looting diapers, water, and food have NEVER experienced the kind of hardship those still in the city are facing.
I think I know where Joe B’s anger must come from. The social fabric is gone. We cannot look out for one another, we yearn for things to be the way they were: food, water, shelter, work, neighbors, friends, everyday morals and ethics, ability to help those in our social networks, and what formerly passed for law and order in New Orleans (never perfect to begin with). But things will not be anything like they were anytime soon. Maybe never. Dead bodies are floating in my neighborhood. Ambulances, fire, and police cannot react normally. Most people are trying to do what they can to survive. Certainly
a modicrum of “order” as Joe suggests must be restored for cleanup. That is months away.
I cannot even totally blame the people stealing “valuables” from stores, at least not any more than I blame Joe for his incitement to state-sponsored murder. These are people who have lost everything- their home, friends, family. They no longer have a compass. In a world where people value money over human need, their logic is really not so different than Joe B’s: property is the most important thing… even more than life.
Now, I can blame those that will put the life of others directly in danger: car jackers, murderers, etc.
Spending time tracking down or punishing looters just distracts from emergency evacuation efforts.
Perhaps the only thing Joe B said that is true is that “Some of those people waiting to be rescued will probably die waiting, because of looters.” Yes, people will die because sensationalizing news outlets, local, and state government are making more than it is.
Half of the Louisiana National Guard is in Iraq.The kind of order that Joe B cannot and will not be maintained through his toy machismo. A
person who is safely typing on his keyboard while our friends in the city starve to death or drown trying to get to a place they can find food or potable water should recognize the situation.
I’m glad you all are safe enough to read this. Let’s hope the best for our friends and neighbors…I have at least half a dozen friends that didn’t get out and are unaccounted for…
Robert Caldwell
“Once we get the 3,000 National Guardsmen here, we’re locking this place down,” Mayor Ray Nagin said. “It’s really difficult because my opinion of the looting is it started with people running out of food, and you can’t really argue with that too much. Then it escalated to this kind of mass chaos where people are taking electronic stuff and all that.”
Amid the chaos Wednesday, thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a pharmacy. The crowd stormed the store, carrying out so much ice, water and food that it dropped from their arms as they ran. The street was littered with packages of ramen noodles and other items.
Looters also chased down a state police truck full of food.
The New Orleans police chief ran off looters while city officials themselves were commandeering equipment from a looted Office Depot. During a state of emergency, authorities have broad powers to take private supplies and buildings for their use.
Robert, I don’t think Joe is putting property above life . . . but I think the opportunistic of these looters are doing exactly that, placing property above life . . . when information starts to flow on this thing, you’ll hear about extortion, robbery, thuggery, and attmepted rape and attempted murder, rape and murder. When law enforcement won’t defend property, those who don’t respect property will move on to the next point of disrespect, of human life.
Of what value is the life of a theif, a rapist, a murderer?
Holly et al – you are just not getting it. What’s on TV is NOT reality. It’s just a glimpse of one tiny part of one scene played in an endless loop that is sickening after the 3rd repetition. I know this will come as a huge shock but what happened to New Orleans happens every day somewhere in the world hence the world’s difficulty in making it front page news everyday.
Keith, Beer is ALWAYS a necessity.
My father lost everything in Ivan last year. When he returned to his home looters were picking thru his belongings. These people are not after essentials to live. They are looking to gain at someone else’s expense and misfortune. How hard is it going to be to clean NO up without having gun battles with local gangs of looters trying to keep their control over an area.
Looters should have one warning shot in the air, the next one should be in their ear. If they can carry a tv or break into a video store, they are strong and able enough to get out of town. The only thing to keep them from leaving is the prospect of getting the game boy they always wanted.
As far as insurance goes, when they start taking personal items, they people who owned them will never get they money for it. In Hurricane Ivan, you had show receipts or take a photo of the damaged item.
How are store owners going to prove to their insurance co. what their inventory was? To assume they will get paid just because they have insurance is ignorant. The insurance companies are going to take a huge hit and they will lowball everyone so they can pay out the very least. They are, after all, a business that has to answer to its stockholders.
How many of the stolen guns are going to be used to commit a crime once life gets back to ‘normal’. How many lives will be lost because someone stole guns and bullets?
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
I can almost guarantee you, the looters are surprised by the non-action of the authorities.
Unfortunately, it’s too late for the shoot to kill policy. The looters are now armed, they are desparate and hungry and pissed. I would not want to be in a uniform in NO in the next few weeks.
What would all you soft butts sitting at your computers do if you were hungery..?!? Get over it! The food is a loss, people are more imporant, and hell everyone needs a TAG watch. As for the “Thugs”… maybe they will all get sick and die! Now there is an upside to a bad storm after all.
Can I get this link to work…(warning, massive racism and obscenty-well, not as much as The Aristocrats, but still…)
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=52383
I’m going to shut up and go get some beer….
My husband and I left with family and out of state guests, he is going back against my wishes to staff one of the surronding facilities that have only generators, as he is an emergency room doctor. His co-workers are currently trapped in the middle of the city and locking themselves in the hospital emergency room with no electricity, secondary to looters, drug seekers Where the hell is the National Guard!! The looters are scum, and these people in the areas you are seeing on television where scum before this from my observations in the Quarter. Shoot the son of a bitches, they are and have always been parasites in this city, with only a few trying to not live for the next drug fix and can of beer.
“Keith, Beer is ALWAYS a necessity.”
lol there Samus . . . but who ever heard of putting in beer *after* the hurricane?
Real simple….shoot the bums
James B,
With all due respect I do not require you to fill me in as to what is reality and what is not. Yes, the news is repetetive. Yes, bad things happen all the time all over the world and people deal with it. What is your point?
Did you apply the same criticism to the BBC’s constant, non-stop coverage of the London terrorist attacks or do you reserve your pompous self rightuosness for American tradgedies only.
It is normal for everyone here to be expressing their sadness, their sense of loss and their sympathies and even their outrage. If you tire of reading it please feel free to check out The Onion, which is always good for a laugh.
Umm, where are the looters taking all their booty? They don’t have homes anymore!! LOL!
FOR GOD’S SAKE, LOOTERS ARE LOOTERS. WE ARE ALL RUNNING OUT OF ANYTHING WE HAD. WHEN WE CAN, POOL OUR RESOURCES. WE MUST REMAIN HUMAN BEINGS WITH SOME SEMBLENCE OF DIGNITY. YES WE NEED THE BASICS, BUT, WHERE THE HELL DO WE TAKE THEM.
OK, shoot at sight…I agree
I am proud iraqi and have shot (at) many americans too that come looting my country
The looting will get worse, and it will indeed progress to violence soon. Those gangs have a lot of old scores to settle, I’m sure. And if they happen to run into a young woman while on the way to some criminal engagement, why not do a little gang-raping on the side? Arson is a great way to get rid of evidence after a burglary operation. So is murdering witnesses. This is not just speculation. New Orleans has a long history of carjacking and home invasion, even during normal times. It will be weeks before the full story is out on how bad things are now–but I’m sure they are much worse than the media is letting on.
The only thing these thugs understand is force. I say send the Police and National Guard around day and night. Anyone who acts suspicious, arrest them and throw them into some sort of fetid holding tank, the more uncomfortable the better–and there are plenty of places like that in New Orleans right now. Anyone who resists arrest, let ‘em have it with the 50 caliber machine gun on those armored personal carriers. A curfew would also be nice, with armored helicopters flying around, ready to gun down anyone on the streets when they aren’t supposed to be there.
I am from New Orleans and live in Pa now. UNTIL ANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION IT IS IN OUR INSTINCT> So what if they are taking food and water and things they need. TV’s and all those clothes and shoes….They really do not need as much as food and water. So please keep your stupid comments on this to your self if they are not intelligent. Until you have been there…You have NO clue what you would do. Be true to yourself on this one at least. REALLY!
The last thing that anyone needs to be worried about is looters, we’re losing focus on the main thing at the moment, that is saving the ones that remain trapped and have no way out. We ought to be thankful for life, help, and strength because there were many unfortunate who did not even make it through all of this. Come on people, we have to pull together and be here for each other, and not condone each other. This situation is a very desperate one for looters, and anyone that’s not in the condition that some of these looters are facing with babies crying because they are hungry, or whatever, then there shouldn’t be any need for any comments. Let’s pull together and build each other and not tear each other down, there is a message in all of this…
jake, you’re a fool for the media. i think if you think about it, surely the media had any evidence of more disorder and violence in NOLA right now, they would show it. do you have ANY evidence showing the TV media to ever show restraint? what are you thinking, honestly. the first network to show film of people dying in NOLA, sadly, will have its ratings shoot through the roof. so don’t be an idiot.
now i will NOT get all bleeding heart here. the only good excuse the police had for not intervening to this point was the inabnility to detain or care for prisoners. Obviously (since they ARE citizens) murdering them is unacceptable, but now that the reinforcements and APCs and other temporary detention facilities are arriving it is time to establsh order. This means going corner to corner, door to door, with guns, getting EVERYONE not in uniform off the streets and into shelters, and of course detaining all looters. if they want to fire back, we’ll have to assume the Nat’l Guardsmen are better trained.
Also, WAKE UP, the War in Iraq is a SHAM and a clear diversion of valuable supplies from where it is needed. There should have been airlifts and troops in NOLA from day two, at the LATEST.
Notice how its all negroes who are doing the looting?
Its New Orleans, Nick-you were expecting maybe the Tong to be out in force, or maybe roving bands of Krishnas? Hmmm-Krishnas….the orange robes would make them easy to shoot…
The reality of the situation is the bleeding hearts who say have compassion and let the looters have the city are the very people who would scream the loudest if the looters were on their doorstep. Deadly force is the only solution, the mayor and Governor have let the law abiding citizens down and created this disgusting criminal atmosphere. Begin a shoot on sight policy and kill as many as possible until they get the message loud and clear.
Food and water is one thing but guns or tangible property that is looted should be paid for with blood.
I don’t have a problem with looters taking food or other necessities. Stores wouldn’t be able to sell that stuff anyway when they return (in flood or fire, food stuffs must be destroyed). However, the looters who break into jewlery stores or pharmacies (to get their drug fix), should be shown no mercy. They are merely trying to capitalize on other people’s misery. Society would definately be better off without them. Try to apprehend them without force, but if they fail to comply, use whatever force necessary.
Amd I agree that armed looters should be shot on sight (or at least shot at). There is no reason for anyone to be roaming around brandishing weapons in clear sight, except for the police or NG. No one should be carjacking someone else at gunpoint. No one should be driving around in stolen vehicles performing drive by shootings. Yet all these things ARE happening and they need to be stopped immediately. If that means using violent force, then violent force needs to be authorized.
I also can’t believe that some idiots are trying to pin all this on George Bush. Rub two brain cells together and see if you can get your brain working again. The simple fact of the matter is that it isn’t the federal government’s responsibility to support the infrastructure of ANY individual city. The American taxpayers are not responsible for maintaining NOLA. The city must be responsible enough to sustain itself. Any money received from the Feds should just be treated as a bonus, not an essential source of funding. If NOLA finds itself in a budget crisis, then it is up to the LA state government to bail them out.
The city officials of NOLA are where the blame should be pointed for the levee breaks, not George Bush. They have neglected their duties for several terms to get NOLA in the shape it is in. Instead of revitalizing parks, giving tax kickbacks to businesses, fronting money for the Superdome, etc.; this money should have been spent on improving the levee system.
Some people make it sound like George Bush walked in one day, picked up a ledger and started marking off line items out of the budget. It doesn’t work that way people! GB doesn’t balance the budget. He isn’t smart enough for that! It was teams of people that cut the budget, and old George just went along with what he was told.
loot food, water, diapers, supplies—fine
loot tv, jewelry, etc—shoot ‘em
besides what are these assholes going to do with a tv? there’s no electricity!
dumbasses
The problem with looting….chaos. I swear my heart breaks thinking that the evacuation process of the people from the superdome has been suspended because someone, armed with a gun looted from Wal Mart actually shot at an Army helicopter involved in the rescue mission. Pathetic. People are dying. People need medical attention and they are stuck in the superdome because order has comletely broken down.
So, there’s the problem with looting. This is not about T.V.s, DVDs or whatever else. This is certainly not about survival. This is about total breakdown of order.
Holly – you’re dead on.
You miss the point. The thousands of people who heeded the call to evacuate left with the idea that their property would be protected. If government allows the society to decend to anarchy, the next time an evacuation is called, people will NOT evacuate and the problems exacerbated. It is not just WalMart being ripped off, there are professional thieves right now going through the high rises stealing art, valuables, information, securities.
I thought the same “Where are they taking this stuff?” But I hear now the West side of the river is dry and the bridges are open. They need to set up check points and keep the flow of traffic in one direction. Face it, these turds are immigrating in and taking advantage of a BAD situation – they don’t deserve due process.
Symbolically, all over Katrina
Adolf,
Use the internet for something other spewing you narrow view. A google for “science+accomplishments+black americans” might be a better use for your computer. You’ll find hours of reading – or for you – days.
“they’re only taking food and water and diapers, really, the vast majority, it’s for the children!”
Uh, I have a friend of a friend trapped inside her house now down there. Totally dry area now – she was lucky. She could evacuate, but won’t because she’s afraid of the carjackers. Would rather stay in her house where there’s “lots of guns.” Is someone taking the CARS of LEAVING REFUGEES doing it for their kids? Really now.
It’s not just about diapers and food. It’s about opportunists. When you hear reports about armed gangs, something’s gotten out of control. There is a law enforcement agency running New Orleans right now, and it is the looting gangs.
I’m usually an evil left-wing liberal, but I agree – one warning shot, then one business shot. The majority of people aren’t looting – they’re sitting scared of the looters. It’s ridiculous to say “loot in peace” when the looting has turned into breaking into other peoples’ houses and depriving THEM of the resources they need to keep their own families alive. I would not care so much if it was just food, water, shoes and maybe an Xbox or two, because we’re fallible. But this has turned into madness and animalistic behavior.
And why is half the LA National Guard guarding oilwells in Iraq when there’s trouble at home? Bring the troops home now – bring them home so they really CAN defend America’s freedom.
To put my comments in perspective, you should know that I’m a native New Yorker who lived through 9/11, and saw exactly how the politicos handled an unbearable situation. My fiance was born and raised in New Orleans, and left just 2 years ago to live in NY with me. We have family still living in the city. Her parents are refugees in Baton Rouge, and one of her brothers is still missing/incommunicado as I type this.
It is so incredibly obvious to me that the very first thing you need to do at a time like this is establish order. Chaos and anarchy will cause many innocent people to die unnecessarily. The looting debate seems to balance between those who feel that essential goods – food, water – can be looted , while those taking tv’s and guns should be shot.
In my opinion, the VERY FIRST thing the mayor should have done was to give strict orders to arrest, by force if necessary, all looters. CONTROL the situation. Imagine what might have happened if looters ran rampant in downtown Manhattan – they didn’t, because the political/policing force were instantly mobilized to prevent it.
For me, the responsibility for all of this lies COMPLETELY with the political/organizational powers in who are allegedly in charge of the city. Martial Law gives the police and/or National Guard the power to commandeer any goods or items that are deemed necessary for the execution of their mission. Therefore, what they SHOULD have done – almost immediately – was to commandeer the K-Marts and grocery sytores. Place 2 armed officers at varius locations, and then , PEACEFULLY distribute the contents to those in need.
And yes, arrest, or shoot, looters. This action would have deterred, or at least put some fear, into the criminal looting element, and the word that distribution of goods was being handled would have brought a LOT more peace of mind to a crazy situation.It may have prevented guns from being looted, and it would have alleviated the terrot that friends of mine are now experiencing as they huddle inside their homes. I know this, because we have friends who left their Garden District home on Wednesday to assess the neighborhood, and within 5 minutes, saw a pickup truck full of armed men, backing up to an antique store. They immediately turned around and returned home, fearing for their lives. Isn’t the situation bad enough without the government acquiescing to this type of bullshit???
By not acting, the Mayor and/or Governor has only added to the anarchy and lawlessness that exacerbates a horrible NATURAL disaster, allowing it to take on elements of a disaster caused by HUMAN BEINGS. In my opinion, that is simply inexcusable leadership.
Leadership – from where I sit Cheech and Chong would be better than these two. The mayor is on ludes and the governor is on the edge of tears – unreal. I predict this will be their last terms with the exception of jail when they discover the levee break was a result of cronyism.
I’m reading this blog safely from germany since the hurricane’s landfall. And I feel very depressed 2 see NO sink, and 2 read about Ur worries and fears. I wish U a lot of strength, calmness and urban solidarity 2 stand the whole situation.
But I’ve 2 say, some of you guys (and girls) are really mindsucking. This discussions (like in this thread i.e.) are no comparsion to community-talks in Londons metblog i.e. after the bombings, or to discussions in different blogs during the asian tsunami. The focus on loosing some goods via looting, the violent fantasies about cheap and brutal revenges and the sometimes even racist point of view of some posters are very disgusting.
I can’t say, what’s more pityful for the more open-minded and thoughtful posters of this blog – to rebuild NO after the desaster, or to be forced to rebuild it together with people like the violent and racist fools, who would like 2 declare civil-war on looters.
Have you ever asked, why urban and civil behaviour collapses in such a short term? Couldn’t it depend on the kind of society, where someone lives and on the actual role-models of a society?
Have you ever tried to imagine, what it is like 2 be too poor, to leave a sinking boat at the right moment?
Is it possible for you to ask, how it comes, that there are weapons could have been stolen at a Walmart? We just buy food and beverage in our stores like this. There are simply no weapons to be stolen at a Walmart in the city… Each society gets what it is…
You seem to live in a very strange kind of country, I think. Very good people caged together with some very weird and crazy folks…
My heart ist with all of the urban and tolerant people, who are posting in metblog NO. Don’t let the fascists overrule you – they just try to take hateful advantages of the desaster – the violent gangs AND the wannabe rednecks – on both sides.
Frank
“Lived through 9/11″ You mean you were in the towers?
9/11 doesn’t have diddly-squat on this . . . 9/11 didn’t produce 1.4 million homeless and destroy tens of billions of dollars of real property, hundredsof thousands of homes, flatten four cities , and disrupt a quarter of the nation’s oil supply. There is no comparison possible in the American experience.
You sound like Mr. Eldridge, the Andrea Doria “survivor” on Seinfeld. Sorry, NYC. You get no context on this, even if you surfed down the wreckage of the towers as they fell.
People that LOOT make me feel embarrassed to be a human being.
Human DIGNITY and a sense of community CAN guide an individual and elevate their actions above animalistic behavior. People have done it successfully in the past, it is not beyond our ability.
Abandoning complete “PREOCCUPATION” with the needs of only oneself is possible and is what is needed in a time of crisis. A society begins with only a handful of people. People with intergrity don’t need a policeman with a gun to make them behave.
Regardless of one’s financial status or race, such character CAN be shown, as a matter of fact some of the most “self-less human beings” that have walked the face of the earth were neither rich, nor white.
The people that stayed behind in NOLA had the opportunity to show the best of humanity.
“Together we stand, divided we fall” – I am sickened to know which manner of behavior has been chosen.
If we had a natural diaster where I lived, anyone who tried to loot me would be shot. Pure and simple. As Americans, we have the right to bear arms and protect our homes and family. If you’re stupid enough to want to steal, you’re gonna be dead or close to it if you try to rob me.
I’ve read most of the posts here concerning the looting situation. It will eventually all turn into anarchy if nothing is done to prevent any further lawlessness,regardless of racial or economic issues.
When a few thugs get away with crimes and others see it, the mindset quickly sets in that its perfectly ok. It will spread like a cancer, infecting all it touches.
Although I am a firm beleiver in humanity, there has to be a line drawn at some point.
The law actually has an answer for the looting discussion. Under both Louisiana and Mississippi law there is an “essential-to-sustain-life” defense that excuses looting when the looting involves the essentials of survival – water, some foodstuffs, some clothing items, and, situationally, things like medicine (both OTC and prescription) and other things.
In effect the “looting” of these types of items, when emergency conditions exist, is not looting at all – and that’s what the state law says in both of these venues.
By all means, invoke and follow the rules and constraints of martial law (shoot to kill, if the looters of TVs, jewelry, etc.), but don’t shoot people who aren’t looting, by their own states’ definition.
Wow. I feel really bad for everyone who has lost something there. But I’m also really happy I don’t live in your country. and I’m not talking about hurricanes now. How can someone even think that the solution is to shoot people immediately (even under martial law) and get support from others is something I will never understand. I *want* to think that it comes from all the distress you’ve been through, but I doubt it. Yes, I know you think you are the empirors of the world, and you probably are… but wake up, you lack humanity. I’m glad that not everyone agrees with you. There’s still hope for a peaceful world.
can’t believe more people are worried about what’s been taken out of rite aid and walmart when the focus should be caring for survivors! one way or another, these businesses will be reimbursed whether they have insurance or not. there’s no guarantee that the looters or anyone taking diapers and water will be compensated for their losses. removing guns out of a store isn’t the right thing, but shooting the individual is much worse and will cause further disruption. how on earth can you even suggest this at this time? most people are getting essentials from these stores. i would do the same thing!!!
Keith:
I don’t have a problem with people seeking sustanance… but how many people are taking MORE than they NEED at the expense of those that are reluctant to throw off the constraints of propriety?
If people would take only what they need, there would probably be enough food and water to keep the survivors alive until help is available.
Hopefully, those few individuals that are the “problem”, and not part of the solution, will be removed from the situation there soon.
Another reason after the lack of poitical leadership, not to live in LA…I agree with an earlier post. Essential distribution points should have been secured and those supplied orderly dispersed.
Everyone seems to be focused on the retail stores. Once they are cleaned out, the jackels will move to new prey and now they are fully armed. Good luck to the common man who is hunkered down with his family trying to survive.
Hey JoeB
Shooting huge crowds is SO inefficient! Why haven’t you advocated simply running them over with army tanks & trucks like the Chinese “Liberation” army did at Tien An-Men Square?(1989)
Besides, Squashing the bodies is cheaper and involves NO emotions.
“Blaming Bush for not funding the levees? Come on! You yourself said in your post that all your life these levees have been set to fail in an event such as this. Now as far as I can recall, Mr. Bush has not been president for 34 years.
How about just questioning the decision-making of POLITICIANS? They’ve been ignoring this impending doom for years.. through NUMEROUS administrations. This is not something you can pin on one person or one administration. This is the culmination of years of group denial, folks! If you live/lived in the city and were not active in pursuing a “solution” to the levee problem, you’re as guilty as anyone.”
RH- You misunderstood me. This was exactly my point. It’s not Bush’s fault, but everyone’s up until now. :) Maybe just re-read my post.
When looters cross the line into carrying firearms with the intention of using them, they put everyone in danger, and when this happens, law enforcement has NO CHOICE but to protect themselves and innocent victimes by any means necessary. If only some looters are carrying weapons and using them, then all looters must be expected to be carrying weapons. In a situation like this, you can’t take the time to “find out” if someone is only looting for survival or engaging in gang activity. That really sucks, because I agree that some of the people still there need to go into these places for basic necessities, but I see no other way out.
this i lived thru 9 11 is bull. unless you were in a tower then everyone in america lived thru it. the situation in N.O.is tenfold the problem.an armed looter should be shoot on site no questions asked. just because a looter has nothing left it is O.K. to loot?how about the homeowners that return and find everything STOLEN.
Hey John B Smith [at September 1, 2005 08:26 AM ] you
“Well, I’m thinking if you shoot someone, [roving, armed, aggressive, criminal] and there are no medical services available, no supplies, no food, and the shot person is surrounded by putrid rotten flooding water and dead bodies, that person will most likely die.”
Let me take a moment to feel bad for them.
There. It passed.
Val,
Thanks for the sanctimonious casting of judgment on those of us who feel that looting endangers those trapped in hospitals, nursing homes, shelters and homes. People have been murdered for their cars and boats in New Orleans, and gangs are patrolling the streets armed with shotguns and semiautomatic weapons. Did you ever stop to think that humanity there has ALREADY been reduced to its base state?
I don’t necessarily advocate shooting on sight, since Louisiana does have state laws protecting those who are looting for the sake of survival. I certainly think that any jackass who would draw sickening racial lines hasn’t lived in the real world, and I’m horrified by such comments.
But to tell us, when we have friends and loved ones experiencing something that you evidently can’t comprehend, that WE lack humanity, is pure BS. I launched a Red Cross blood drive at my office, along with a fundraiser, wherein my employer (the largest profit-earning arm of the Washington Post Company) will match each employee’s donation.
Oh yeah, I certainly lack humanity. But tell you what, when my traumatized boyfriend returns to his uptown home in four months, would you like to sit and explain to him that his lack of humanity is the reason that, despite surviving the flooding and storm, his entire house has been pillaged? Didn’t think so…
You know what really pisses me off? Apparently it’s not only the looters who have no respect for human life. It’s you.
All of you are disgusting.
Rose:
How do you propose that the looters, the one’s with guns that are shooting people and taking cars and hijacking boats, be dealt with?
Just curious.
To control looting, keep the peace and calm the general public, I’m wondering why the Military (Federal & State) hasn’t been brought in. Thier presence should have been apparent, in large numbers, immediately after the storm subsided.
Oh yeah, now I remember, they’re off tracking down WMDs (that don’t exist) and “nation building” half a world away.
Never mind.
-Mike L.
SJL:
I’d say that the problem right now is that they CAN’T be dealt with. Shooting them’s not the answer. Way to advocate for more chaos in an already-chaotic situation. That’s just stupidity.
1) These people are not going anywhere. The people who are looting have NO WAY to leave NOLA. They’re stuck there, and so is the shit they steal. It will all be sorted out in the end, because even if they evacuate, how the hell do you think they’re going to move that shit anywhere? They can’t.
2) Taking cars and hijacking boats is not what most people are doing. These are ISOLATED INCIDENTS. Yes, the National Guard should deal with them, but they can’t be everywhere at once, nor is shooting every looter you come across going to help the situation at all.
The very first post put all looters together, claiming that they “endanger lives by draining personnel resources that could otherwise be used to rescue people.” What a load of horse shit. Yes, there are a minority of people out there with guns causing trouble, shooting them isn’t going to help the situation or end the looting. It’ll just make more people who are looting arm themselves because they won’t know or care that the person who was shot had a gun.
If you think that the best answer is to add more chaos to the situation, y’all are just fucking stupid. Something needs to be done, but answering violence with violence is just going to make it worse.
okay…..to all those, in our country and NOT who think shooting or preventing the looters from having their way. Just what is your frickin answer to this problem? eh? it’s so easy to say how awful you americans are for having such opinions, bla bla bla, espcially those judging us from afar.
let’s hear your non violent SOLUTIONS. and not what “could or should” have been done yesterday. just what would YOU do now, today? quit picking apart and finger pointing over what others have said. put up or shut up.
I say they have to be shot or stopped, they are at war to control this city and terrorize the majority of it’s citizens, how right is that??? what would you pasives do if it was YOU hiding in fear in your homes from the “poor looters”, open the door? invite them in? think you could rehabilitate them in conversation, ha, let’s see it. or better yet, would it be okay with you if they shoot you dead, end you life just because you think “stuff” is not worth fighting over?
they have to be stopped so the important work of rescue can get on!
This situation is ridiculous. I feel so sorry for the small percentage of good, intelligent people in New Orleans. I cannot fathom what it’s like being surrounded by such a selfish/idiotic population in a dire situation. Shooting at rescue choppers and boats? Exploiting a disaster to loot businesses? It’s a city of illiterate and welfare leeching pieces of sh*t that are once again blaming the government for all their problems. They expect immediate assistance and filet mignon for dinner. Anything less and they’re being treated like animals. I wouldn’t be so insensitive if I didn’t see constant film of these people bashing the government and the president. They are delusional and are blaming a natural disaster on the “oppressive” system. They never admit that maybe, just MAYBE they’re unwillingness to comply with a mass evacuation carries part of the blame. Sheer chaos has ensued, which always will with a populace so primitive and dumb. God bless the children unfortunate enough to be in such a society.
Rose:
Well if they “can’t be dealt with” then everyone will have to just live with what damage they will be “allowed” to do.
Maybe after they loot the old part of town; French Quarters, etc. they will burn it all down, why not? They are in control of situation, and being reasonable doesn’t seem to be part of their personal agenda.
I guess everyone will just have to wait until these looters with guns get tired and are finished doing whatever it is they wish to do.
Afterall, if nothing is done, it will only stay “isolated incidences” right??? I do wonder how the non-looting, non-armed survivors are feeling right about now.
I live in uptown, my house made it. I left everything I have ever had and worked my ass off for in this house.To know that someone could come in and proably already has and take what they want, just blows my mind.By the way, I have only lived in the city 3 weeks. Welcome to New Oleans!!!!! As for the looters, karma is a bitch.
OOOPSSS NEW ORLEANS!! You can tell I’m a newbie.
What’s that Galactic song?
“Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to New Orleans, Louisiana, home of the hits. And if you’re from out of town…heh…welcome to the third world.”
Jim:
Yeah, great – why don’t you add hateful, racist comments to the discussion?
Trust me, there are plenty of smart and honest black people living in New Orleans and you just slammed them with that pathetic generalization.
I don’t approve of the behavior of the looters, but it’s their “value system” that I have issues with, not the color of their skin. I have seen people of all races behave badly… your comment was just a example.
Jesus Christ, I just read that comment and almost lost my lunch.
This isn’t about race, people – NOLA is predominantly black, but so what? That’s a horrible thing to say.
Innocent people are dying and will continue to die because rescue and evacuation operations had to be halted. Shooting looters has nothing to do with protecting property. It’s about protecting the lives of the innocent.
Well, it’s obvious Jimbo is out protecting his doublewide from looters.
I must say I am at a loss for words. It saddens me that the news media and even this blog devote so much time to the looting. I am a community activist in Atlanta, GA. I am also a black American. I can’t help but criticize the media for this awful spin on this disaster. Too much focus is on looting and not enough on saving lives. I guess it is not viewer worthy to focus on the thousands of individuals who are still trapped on roofs and inside attics. Or the ineffective, uncoordinated evacuation plans, or the lack of food distribution to those NOT in the Superdome, or the shortage of manpower in the streets, or hell, even the other 100 terrible conditions in the areas affected. Or better yet, what about the people on dry land that are clueless about where to go, what to eat? It’s not like THEY have CNN or a radio handy for instructions. From the likes of the tv, it doesn’t seem like the police and guardsmen even have a firm grasp on the problem of stabilizing the city themselves. It’s like the blind leading the blind.
I am angry at the reporters who waste our precious time sensationalizing looting. No, I am NOT saying that violent acts of thievery and aggression are acceptable. I don’t condone killing and unnecessary stealing just because one can get away with it or they are greedy. However, a lot of the images of the looters are in fact taking essentials like diapers, sodas and other fluids, etc.
Did we ever stop to ask why people might break into a pharmacy or the hospital without assuming the worst of those people?? Maybe just maybe the looters wanted food and water and felt like the hospitals or nursing homes have them. Maybe they broke into the pharmacy to get diabetic supplies or diapers or sanitary napkins or any of the other 1,000 things drug stores carry RATHER than CRACK or DRUG addictions. Maybe they are desparate just to live to see tomorrow. Maybe they are confused, scared, in shock, whatever. These people were poor, and I’m not talking about I don’t make $40,000 a year YET poor.They COULDN’T leave NO before the hurricane(most of them have no cars), and even if they could have evacuated in time before the storm and chose to “ride it out” as one suggested, is their life no less valuable because of a bad call? How many of us have made bad decisions? Do we deserve to die for them? NO.
I can only imagine how I would feel to have my already limited resources destroyed in a matter of hours. We can blog all day with our middle class understandings of the world, but these people had nothing to begin with and now they have more of nothing. That seems pretty hopeless to me.
I blame the lack of order for the problems-from day 1. Had appropriate measures been implemented to alleve some of their suffering, I don’t think we would see some of this crime-people wouldn’t feel so desparate and without clear direction or hope. Maybe people stole guns to protect their families from the crazies who were/are sure to come out. Yes, carjacking is wrong, but when you just saw your house covered in water and your family and friends washed down the street and you didn’t hear that MAYBE you could take a number to catch the bus to TX, maybe you would feel desparate to escape the agony at any costs as well. Again, not excusing it, I just understand how it could happen.
We sit behind our computer screens and attempt to judge these people. Who are we?? What natural disaster to this magnitude have we gone through? Some of us panic when our lights are out during a thunderstorm and our food MIGHT spoil. Really, people, come on! Have you spent the time and energy coordinating clothing drives or sending money to relief efforts? What about praying for the victims and the families who can’t get a phone signal to call loved ones? We should be careful what we say because one day it could be us or someone close to us in such peril. Destruction has no preferences for socio-economics, gender, or race.
I am frightened and embarassed that some of you even post the racist remarks that I’ve read. It is truly disgusting and inappropriate! This should have never been about race, but rather human suffering. Is it because the only images we see on tv are of black people or maybe it’s because they are poor people? Does that make the death and destruction less severe? I would hope that we are better than that, at least able to conceal our deep prejudice for the cause of saving and preserving human life- not cars, not jewelry, not personal material things. I’m sure that once people don’t feel like they are abandoned in these areas, order will be restored as much as possible considering.
Try putting yourselves in their shoes for half a second. I guess that is too much to ask for some of us.
Kantrice R. Vincent
Can someone who is there clarify the extent of the flooding? Is the city flooded on the opposite side of the river? Is there access over the 90 bridge? Can people flow from one side of the river to the other? What is the highway route to Houston?
Lost
Those that think the looting is a reasonable response to this tragic situtation are idiots. Is shooting them correct, I say yes – if they are armed. Any gangs of looters should be shot. If killed – so be it. They put themselves in that position and I will pray for their souls.
Private home owners have every right to defend their homes.
Now, may I ask why any of you live on the Gulf Coast? I read the one post about living in SO FL, parents living in Pensacola and all the hurricanes that you have endured. With the high likelihood of hurricanes each year, why are you living there? Why should New Orleans be rebuilt? Yes, I know, culture, culture and more culture. It is under water people! On a normal day, water has to be pumped to keep the city from flooding. Sorry, but I say get everybody out and then let the natural course of events take over. Your responses should be fun to read……
TSK! TSK! Slappy:
Are you trolling for reactions? Really, everybody has to live “somewhere”, and I dare say there is very few places that are 100% safe.
Nearly every area is open to some disaster of some kind at some time or another. I doubt the people of Wright, Wyoming ever thought a tornado would whip down and kill a couple of people and take out 50 some mobile homes.
Where are you going to go??? Seems if a tornado or a hurricane doesn’t get you, an earthquake eventually will.
Life is a risk.
You have it right. Kill those stinking bastards who are toting weapons and looting big screen TV’s and breaking into peoples cars. We need an army of Annold’s, Steven Sagal’s and Sly Stalone’s to let those filty stinking worthless scum of the earth SOB’s know that behavior won’t be tolerated.
SJL
I don’t think you can compare the risk of a Wyoming tornado vs. living in a bowl between two dynamic bodies of water. NOLA is a 7 on the die and Wyoming is snake eyes.
Now that al Qaeda types have seen the results of Katrina, those dice are loaded. You can bet NOLA is a prime target for their gymnastics. That’s a risk that we will end up subsidizing.
I live in Florida and I visit N.O.and the Gulf Coast a lot,and I mourn the death and destruction brought to such beautiful surroundings by the cruel acts of Nature.
I hope all who read this recover from your personal disasters quickly.
Unfortunately,I don’t think New Orleans will recover.The damage to the city’s character will be irreversable,and the changes in store for the Easy are beginning to manifest themselves through the even crueler acts of the looters,those Alpha-beasts who are now released from their neighborhood confinement and have a whole city to loot and no one to stop them.
This first character change–this release of all the negative,opportunistic energy stored in the criminal minds of the true lower classes(so well demonstrated on Canal St the other day as they stole jewels and shoes)–is giving New Orleans a sudden,nasty hard edge.
That they are armed and dangerous,breaking all the rules and acting like Iraqis in Kuwait is reason enough to shoot them as they loot.
I have no doubt that they are doing exactly that today,shooting enemies–or anyone who disses them–settling scores and dumping what will be just one more corpse into the toxic stew while on their way to rob another store.Who’s gonna know?
They have demonstrated that they are eager to shoot back if challenged.I say challenge them,all of them.
If it IS a Mom stealing diapers,well,OK.
If it’s a blinged-up,tatooed banger with a bag of Rolexes and MP3 players,shoot him.
That culture cannot be allowed to breed and thrive.It must be stopped now or their actions will escalate beyond stealing to murder,assault,arson and the total breakdown of an already shattered society.Sad,battered New Orleans doesn’t need them.Shoot a few and the word will get around fast.The remaining characters will then join the evacuation,just to get out of town.The looting craze must not be allowed to even begin to thrive.
If it continues,it will become in the eyes of all as how New Orleans is seen forevermore–a toxic sewer of emboldened,dangerous thugs who will strip you to the bone–maybe kill you–steal your stuff and strut away.Who’d want to visit THAT?
This kind of nihilism is tougher to overcome than a few dead criminals and will forever alter the City’s personality if the looting is allowed to go unchecked.
My second choice,if looter-shooting seems somehow inappropriate,is simple.
If they are caught looting,helicopter them up to a rooftop somewhere-there’s lots of those-and let them stay until the City is drained…
Good luck to you all.
Dear Kantrance,
I’m really glad that you identified yourself as a “black” American, rater than “African” American. It would be better yet if you simply said you were an American. Regardless, you are also – from what I read – an apoligist. There is NO excuse for unlawful activity. I come from an extremely poor family. I have been poor. That condition was and will never be an excuse for lawless behavior on my part.
The idiots posting the NAZI crap racist remarks are scum. Just like the dark-skinned zeros who are breaking into peoples homes. Scum is scum. I’m guessing that you’re an intelligent person (you sure wrote well).. that being the case, consider this, please: There can be no excuse for some of these behaviors… poverty does NOT excuse violence, or thievery, does it? Who is to blame for that poverty? NOT ME BUCKO… I worked my way out of it. Who’s responsible for all the poor folks and their children.. NOT ME… I’ve taken care of my own. So, for you and all the other bleeding hearts that are saying that we should excuse or understand or forgive this lawlessness because someone is poor or “black” or whatever color…. get over it – I’ll do nothing of the sort. I’m gonna whack the first s.o.b. that tries to take what I earned thru hard work. Choices… it’s all about choices. I chose to go to work. I chose to go to school. I chose to pull myself out of the hole and my children along with me. Guess my color.
Why is 99% of the looting being done by black people? Were are the civil rights leaders? I feel sorry for the upstanding black people of this country, the images on TV are doing nothing help the overall fight for equality and to erase racism in this country!
Hello,
there s constant update on New Orleans rescue situation on the website of Germany “SPIEGEL” magazine as well. About 2 hours ago they wrote that rescue personnel has been ordered to stop by the authorities because of the continuing shootings at rescue staff. I ll try and translate the latest message of about 9.30 European time into English below (and I hope they will start with the rescue again soon):
[21.22 ] In New Orleans the evacuation of people from hospitals is drastically being hindered/blocked by protests from enraged people” a spokeswoman of the municipal rescue center Cheri Ben-Iesan said.
There are reports coming from EVERY hospital that rescue helicopters are being shot at. People are firing short-distance gunshots at helicopters and policemen and are yelling at them “You d better come and get/rescue my family!”
Hm, I just read some of the discussions here about Black Americans / Whites and crime in N.O.
Wouldn t it be better to NOW concentrate on ways of saving ANYONE s lives there in New Orleans?? Why don t you blame your U.S. ADMINISTRATION for some of all this? But better also LATER-ON, not NOW!
It may be that a larger percentage of blacks is engaged in crack dealing a.s.o. in New Orleans but: Does this discussion now HELP anyone who s in danger now in New Orleans? For a lot of “normal” non-criminal people, black and white, are DYING right now, among other because your President Bush prefers sending his troops to war overseas instead of keeping them and YOUR tax money home in the U.S. for situations like this!
Shouldn t anyone rather try to help the people down there in N.O. or get the U.S. Government going(!) finally instead of arguing here about racism?
Wishing anyone who has to stay in the N.O. area the best and that you ll be safe asap.
Manuela/Munich Germany
It’s sick to exploit a hurricane to steal beer, cars, medical supplies, and crap like that. The more looters that get shot, the less temporary housing we need to worry about.
Besides, it will only take a few hundred killings before word to spreads amongst the savages that the law wins in the end. They’re not stupid. They’ll get the point.
It has nothing to do with race.
The stockpiles of food and water in the stores are gone by now. Any looting going on now is pure theft for personal gain. Armed gangs shooting at rescue choppers? Just start shooting the lawbreakers and get the truely helpless the hell outta there. And take your liberal “impoverished and unfortunate ” bullshit and sell it to Satan. That kind of thinking does nothing to create personal responsibility. It just perpetuates the problem.
Armed looters should be shot on site. The national guard should fly over the city with loudspeakers and instructions for those who wish to evacuate. Those who don’t want to leave more than likely = looters. No problem. We can just let the looters that are stealing TV’s and guns stay another month. The dysentary, West Nile, etc. should take care of them soon enough.
Slappy,
I’m the poster who lives in south Florida, while my parents endure in Pensacola and my boyfriend is trapped outside of New Orleans. Southerners are used to adversity – we’ve been deluged by storms for years and years, and will continue to show our resilience. I will move to New Orleans in a couple of years (logging project management hours in my PR job so that I can take my PMP exam), and I believe that Owen, a lawyer, and I will raise our family there and grow old together heckling drunk college students staggering down St. Charles from our front porch.
Mr. Nothcher,
Well I self-identify as a black American because, while color shouldn’t be an issue is the U.S., it still is. Because of the entrenched issues surrounding race in America, I believe that as a black American my perspective on most things racial is different than others. Again, not promoting or validating one over the other, just stating a fact.
I am NOT excusing violence. I don’t think that is what my earlier response indicates. I do want people to consider the source of the panic rather than continue with assumptions as to these people’s character or motives. Yes, there are some individuals in the bunch down there taking advantage of the situation by stealing recklessly and inflicting harm on others and ultimately themselves. However, when I look at the media reports about the deteriorating conditions today, I see utter fear, confusion, and desparation on most faces.
While you may consider me a “bleeding heart”, I don’t think of myself as such. I am a do-righter, no a do-gooder. It is right to preserve humanity and feel pain when others suffer. For that, I gladly wear the blame. I am glad that you were able to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and work to achieve whatever material success you have. My personal views about community responsibility dictate that no matter how much I have, I am only as strong or as powerful as the weakest person in my community. I give back and am concerned because I believe that, again, it is the right thing to do. I could sit back and enjoy my material gain with little concern for those without-EASILY. I grew up upper middle class. I went to the best colleges and enjoy a great career. While I can’t identify with poverty on the level of those in NO, I have seen the affects of poverty on the psyche and lives of the urban community-and contrary to some people’s opinions, poverty affects all races the same. I could sit back and say why can’t they just get over it and do better, but not everyone has your resolve and the resolve of other overcomers.You can look at siblings in the same family and see that no two people respond the same to their environment-one may be a drug addict while the other may be in the NFL. We can all look at poorer people in our respective cultures and resent them. What does that really solve? Not much, I am willing to wager.
So, while NO should not be about race, it has been playing out that way in the media. A friend of mine sent me an email this afternoon about the racially biased spin on the looting. In one picture it shows a black youth wading through water with some merchandise not directly near a store or anything or caught red handed exiting a store with armloads of things. The caption reads that he is a looter. Another picture illustrates a white middle-aged man with some merchandise in chest deep water. The caption reads that the man FOUND the items. Now, I am not reading into anything or passing blame. Unfortunately, this is the society we live in.
Also, to the person who says that 99% of the looting is being done by black people in shock or surprise. Anyone who is familiar with the very poor areas of NO would know that the majority of the individuals are black. Those with the means to leave NO-white and black- have done so. So, you have poorer individuals left in the city. Even if these people had food stored in their fridges or cabinets in preparation for the storm, I am sure it was unavailable when the flood waters came in. Plus there is no running water for restroom or bathing needs or drinking now.
Unfortunately, looting is happening in most of the places affected by the hurricane to some degree. It just seems like CNN and Fox News would like to focus on NO’s problems with the issue rather than in some other areas of TX, AL, and FL. Yes, NO is the hotspot because it seems to have a huge concentration of folks with little options for leaving right now because they are surrounded by water or damaged infrastructure whereas some other victims are able to move freely about on dry land. People are dying from lack of care and food-laid right out in the streets. They are relegated to small areas and are starting to panick.
The civil rights leaders can not prevent panick among people in this situation. No one can unless it comes with remedies. When 9/11 happened, those directly affected in NY did not care what the president was saying on tv. They were grieving and looking for loved ones immediately after the blasts. It is premature for us to say that there is no hope-people are still displaced and trapped in not only NO, but in TX and AL too. Let them get it together first and feed and tend to these “refugees”, then I am sure we all will be interested in the messages of hope and inspiration and resolve from our nation’s leaders both political and civic.
Sensationalism boosts ratings and unfortunately we bought into it.
To Manuela from Germany, I am offended that you incorrectly believe that blacks are the large percentage of dealers of crack in NO. ALL communities across the colorlines in America deal with illegal drug activity. Whether it is meth labs and rave parties in middle America to cocaine in the upper middle class neighborhoods to crack in the inner city streets. The actions of a few should never speak for the whole. I am sure Germans are not happy to be lumped together with the actions of a few notorious individuals of its not-so-distant past. Likewise for minorities in America.Yes, you are correct in that we should not focus on race but on fixing the problems soon not creating more.
Caiti,
Thats fine that you and many others want to live in New Orleans. Just don’t expect Federal Tax dollars to pay for the security of your city! The city is a bowl, 12 feet below sea level and getting lower, surrounded by 3 bodies of waters, and is hit by hurricanes every couple of years. It was only a matter of time before this happened and it WILL happen again. I am angry with the people who have blamed President Bush for the lack of federal funding for the levys in New Orleans. If people want to live there, they, and only they, should pay for the high cost of living there, not my tax dollars!
Kantrice R. Vincent,
Racism is still in America, and its unfortinate. But the cold hard truth is that it is not the attitudes of the whites, its the actions by the black people! There are more black men between 18 and 24 in prison then in college. Blacks make up about 20% of the population in the U.S. but closer to 60% of the prison population. Those facts are hard to ignore!
Haha, what people aren’t paying attention to is the fact that this is THE SOUTH. WHO ISN’T CARRYING A GUN, ESPECIALLY IN THIS SITUATION??
Jason:
There are other reasons besides the common white-supremist argument that blacks are somehow inferior. 1) Black people are often poor and in desperate situations. 2) Crack, a “poor” drug, carries a heavier sentance than pure cocaine. Take all drug-related shit out of the equation, and it’s a lot different.
So I’m sitting here in California, reading anything about the catastrophe that I can. I’ve donated money, I’ve prayed. I hope to God that the National Guard shows up soon. I think they’d be crazy to rebuild New Orleans when they have issues keeping the water out on any given day. I wonder where everyone is going to live. I wonder how many people are going to die because they didn’t get rescued in time, since all the police are trying to deal with the fool looters, who are also stealing guns and shooting at rescue helicopters and hospitals. I’m sorry I never visited New Orleans when I had the opportunity.
I guess we’re all frustrated and wondering where the hell is the cavalry when you need them.
I think I’ll take an earthquake over a hurricane any day.
Wish I could do more to help.
(the nutshell version of what we’re thinking out here on the west coast)
Wasn’t it greed that caused millions of humans to be murdered and sold into slavery because some of your ancestors were too cheap or too greedy to pay a fair and decent wage for labor. What about that greed? To actually “loot” cities and murder, rape, and kill human beings for free labor. If that’s not the definition of greed then what is?
Wasn’t Vietnam about greed too and let’s not even start on the greed that brought thousands of innocent young American men to die in Iraq for an illegal war. And belive it or not Sadaam did not loot all the money in Iraq…how soon did we forget about banks and museums being “looted” of money and priceless artifacts by guess who??? US Soilders…I wonder how many priceless items from Iraq will we see on Ebay five years from now. To keep it short and simple I will even skip a discussion on who is “looting” all of Iraq’s oil.
What is really a shame is that the have’s have always “looted” and pillaged when they could have easily afforded not to. Now that’s real greed for ya. But you know what – maybe it isn’t really greed – maybe Bush, Cheyney, Rumsfield are “looting” just trying to survive.
Also food and water are not the only neccessities in disasters. Guns can protect my family and children. Beer can be drank to keep my family and I from getting dehydrated. And material items like jewerly can be traded or sold later when I get to TX for food, water, a hotel, etc. I also just thought about something while we’re on jewelry who “looted” the Africas and the Americas of gold, silver, diamonds, and other precious metals. But i’m pretty sure the European explorers were “looting” to survive too.
Get the F—- off your high horse people and please come down to reality
“Peaceful” looting?? What of the rapes and murders being reported? Drinking BEER for dehydration? Good call there, genius.
Let’s excuse the looting, the raping, and murdering, because after all, they are poor black folks and because of slavery and all they just can’t help it…HOW RACIST IS THAT LINE OF THINKING?
I’m amazed at the almost criminal naivete of some of the people out there. You just don’t get that some folks(i.e. gangs of marauding looters/rapists/murderers) respect only force and that to regain control force must be used.
Sigh.
By that logic, Mad Republican, most of California shouldn’t have been rebuilt by MY tax dollars after myriad mudslides, forest fires and earthquakes. Iowa? Sheesh, they’re in Tornado Alley – they’re on their own. And Florida? Don’t get me started on that hurricane prone state.
If you sense the rampant sarcasm in my post, you’re more intuitive than your comments would lead me to believe.
Rose,
Your points although commonly used, hold no water. “1) Black people are often poor and in desperate situations.” So what? Hispanics are just as poor, but making up about 13% of the population in the U.S. and making up 13% of the prison population. There are all sorts of poor white AND Hispanic people who don’t act like the the blacks in N.O. are, I am by no means a white-supremist just because I can acknowledge FACTS!
“2) Crack, a “poor” drug, carries a heavier sentance than pure cocaine. Take all drug-related shit out of the equation, and it’s a lot different.” – Wrong again! Crack does not have a heavier sentance then cocain, where did you get that from? don’t just make up facts! For one, there is no distinction between the two written into any state or federal law!
Lastly, I was just interuppted on the phone while writing this blog, my friend happends to be black! I was simply point out facts and my frustrations that I am seeing on TV!
“The most compassionate thing you can do for the lawless hordes is to begin shooting.” – Joe B.
This has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever come across. With the exception of some, the posts on this board are ugly and disappointing. It’s difficult and sad to argue against such ignorance and cruelty.
Take away the black, white, poor, middle class discussions, and you are left with people who are starving and dying. Your “shoot the looters” theory is not only a detached and inhuman theory, but also an absolute logistical nightmare. Emergency services are already overwhelmed, and now you are asking police and national guard to make life and death distinctions and choices?
For example, who are the people we shoot? Is it armed looters or unarmed looters? What if they can’t tell that they’re armed? What if it’s dark and the police are unsure as to whether the looters are parents who are looking for diabetic supplies for their kids and themselves, and yet have a gun to fend for their own safety? What if a kid is holding the gun?
There’s a major difference between self-defense and offensive deadly contact. If there is a shootout, and the police are in fear of their safety and that of others, then deadly force is legally allowed. That is the case under common criminal law. That I understand.
But if you just see some people stealing some tvs, and they happen to be holding a gun, do you shoot? Is that what you are advocating?
If you shoot, you kill. People can’t even get insulin shots, let alone medical care for gunshot wounds. Your brilliant solution (Just shoot ‘em! Yeehaw!) will only add to incredibly stressful and tense situation. No doubt, the shooting will not only add to the disease ridden waters, but it could create utter social chaos and riots.
I can’t believe I even have to argue against others about this. This is a truly disgusting and shameful discussion. I look at the devastation on TV, and then this board, and it’s just incredibly sad.
Caiti,
I see the sarcasm in your post, and I see your ignorance, all the same time! For one, California has the 5th largets econmy in the world, yes, the world, so I don’t think they need your tax dollars! Iowa? the entire midwest is part of the Tornado Alley, tornados can occur almost anyplace, you can’t compare the hundreds of thousands of square miles of the midwest to 2 square miles of N.O.! That is apples and oranges! To rebuld N.O. is idiotic! Move it 1 hour north and be free of the forever fear of flooding! If you want to rebuild it were its at, YOU pay! Your like an idiot who would go to Iraq on vacation and complain when you got shot at!
Hey, Mad Republican,
Want to let us know where they should move the extremely important port that’s in NO?
“The city officials of NOLA are where the blame should be pointed for the levee breaks, not George Bush. They have neglected their duties for several terms to get NOLA in the shape it is in. Instead of revitalizing parks, giving tax kickbacks to businesses, fronting money for the Superdome, etc.; this money should have been spent on improving the levee system.
“Some people make it sound like George Bush walked in one day, picked up a ledger and started marking off line items out of the budget. It doesn’t work that way people! GB doesn’t balance the budget. He isn’t smart enough for that! It was teams of people that cut the budget, and old George just went along with what he was told.” …….. from ‘Will’.
Well Will, here is how I see it:
Maybe there was some merit in having the Federal government support New Orleans financially, since it’s a major port, refining center, and the start point of a few major pipelines of fuel to large areas of the Eastern seaboard ….did you wonder why the price of gas jumped recently? Do you think this will cause inflation throughout the economy?
…but I digress from the larger issue of whether we should shoot people on sight for stealing shit when they’re living in a total hell of deprivation and chaos….
and that was BEFORE Katrina hit, and the levee stopped being dry, or even there, and all that.
I’m sure that the upper class called out from their SUV’s, as they drove out of town
” Goodbye you guys, so long. Watch out for our shit while we’re away, help yourself to what’s left in the fridge….”
It’s too bad this race/class war is exploding at the worst possible time…
but didn’t you see it coming?
And hell no, the cops, military or whatever don’t need to kill people in the streets of New Orleans…they need to “serve” and then “protect”, just like they’re sworn to when we agree to give them a pay check.
And hell yes, if a bunch of thugs want to shake you down and assault you, you have the right to take whatever measures are needed to keep yourself safe.
I’m just glad that the President cut his vacation a few days short this year….he’s a moron, but he’s OUR moron, and he’s the stumbling bumpkin figurehead that smoothes out the gross errors in judgement his evil managers make.
I’m just glad he was smart enough to have his fly up when the cameras tried to catch him working ( although I suppose he has people who are responsible for that)
And he’s nice to his dog ( I’ve seen the pictures)
Laissez bon temps roulez, n’est pas?
Yeah, what about that pesky port? You may have noticed an increase the price of gas you’re pumping into your car this week, too – want to hazard a guess as to why? New Orleans, in addition to being the country’s 35th largest city, also handle 25% of our crude oil supply. Gosh, that seems kinds of important economically. But what do I know? I’m just ignorant, right?
On a side note, apart from wine, how is northern California so VASTLY important to our economy?
When the local NO authorities opened the jail doors and let the criminals run free, what did they expect? An orderly exit from the city? The predators are always looking for prey. It’s sad that normally law-abiding citizens are compelled to steal food and water to survive but what choice do they have? There is no help coming to them. That being said, when the predators gang up and are armed with AK-47’s and start shooting at rescue choppers, then all bets are off. Time to send in the Hueys with 50 caliber mounts. A little return fire will put an end to that.
As an outsider an aussie,the reports we are getting are of the people scared of gangs of (people) animals preying on their own folk which is what i knew would happen in any civilized?society as soon as the power went out and as most folk have little common sense and no ability to prepare for this stuff,(poor or not they could have at least filled some water containers , there was i believe some warning). But i for one would have made damn sure i was armed enough to protect myself and my family.
I can remeber other disasters in aceh indonesia were i went shortly after the tsunami and in Australia in 74 we had a cyclone that devestated a whole city and in both cases i cant recall one rape looting or crime as a result of preying on their own people,what is it with America?
Shooting looters appeals to my sense of justice and order, but who gets to do the shooting. What I’m hearing is some of the police are looting. They get to shoot anybody they want, no questions ever asked? Some would be tempted to even some scores, or work out some frustrations. Some are not mentally or emotionally stable enough in this situation to sort out what is really happening. Cognitive dissonance and perceptive distortion must be expected.
Better for all concerned and the survival of civilization if the ground rules don’t allow any shooting on sight.
Returning fire of course is a whole different matter. The 2nd amendment was for this, so expect to see guns toted, but anybody who fires on another should be taken out, pronto.
I’ve been following this thread and I must say that I am very saddened, and dare I say, disgusted, by some of the posts that I’ve read. What has our society come to? I wonder how some of you can really believe the things that you are saying. Some of the comments I hear make me want to move to an island off the coast of Maine (But one with a spot that is WELL above sea level) and leave TV, Radio, and all of the world’s problems behind. It distresses me indeed to know that I live in a country where we can’t even shoot looters anymore without such a big fuss.
The poverty of blacks in the inner cities of America is our great failure. Thousands of them couldn’t get out because of their poverty and now everything has gone to hell. What did you expect to happen? Did you expect all the gangsters to help their suffering neighbors? This is another big aspect of the disaster which could’ve been prevented, and should’ve. It’s shameful for all of us, living in the richest and most advanced nation on Earth, in history.
Yes…I agree Greg.
People have the understandable urge, if not the right, to salvage perishables and needed items in the midst of a disaster…
as a smoker, I’d definitely ‘loot’ cigarettes, along with the groceries.
I might even ‘loot’ booze…since getting drunk is a short term reaction to a surreal reality.
And we all know this bad party will end some time in the next week, eh?
And the ATM’s and Casinos have no value right now, in a world with no electricity or fresh water… money, in an economy based on basic survival, is irrelevant….but money probably WILL have value next week, after they get the civil unrest under control ( but not as much…inflation is on us…I’ve seen gas prices that range from $2.89 a gallon to $3.99 a gallon in a 40 mile radius ..who’s ‘looting’ who these days.)
I just hope they open the state parks so that families can squat in the mean time…until we all get our shit together… until we stop finding stupidly camera friendly and after the fact PR opportunities to incarcerate people in football stadiums…..
People camping out in the state parks (with ongoing assistance for acquiring food and water) might have some peace, independence, and personal integrity during this crisis.
until the next hurricane, that is.
I have to agree with the poster. When people go from stealing necessities to stealing items like TVs and Cadillacs(yes, every cadillac at the downtown dealership has been stolen), it’s time to get tough.
Looters have been breaking into homes of people who are stranded by water and being robbed at gunpoint. A cop was shot and killed. People were shooting at hospitals and police stations and even rescue choppers just trying to pick up stranded people.
Declare martial law, send in troops and you start shooting looters. You HAVE to gain control in order to effectively help people else it’s just going to get worse and rescue people are going to refuse helping because their lives are at risk.
Why do the looters have to be shot on sight? That seems a bit drastic and unnecessary. Make them put down their guns, take away their ammo, no reason to go all John Wayne. Killing anybody is serious, and if there are alternatives you should follow them.
1) I’m very saddened, as well. Not by the aggressive law-and-order tone expressed in these posts, but by the “don’t judge the rapists because they suffer from economic injustice” anomial types.
2) I agree that the media attention will hurt NO and hurt race relations, but guess what….It’s news. When a city floods, that’s news with a little “n”. When a major city turns into an Escape From New York hellhole in two days, and evil rules the streets, that’s news with a capital “N”.
3) Broadcasting violence and looting-for-profit doesn’t make those people look bad. THEY are making themselves look bad. Face the facts.
4) Theft from corporations or insured people/businesses is not a lesser form of theft. Why do people persist in this fallacy?
5) Finally, consider this. Many of you are upset that we can be angry at looters in a time of desparation. BUT…We are angry at the looters because of this time of desparation and because they are abusing the trust, vulnerability, and decency of others. It’s not just about theft and lawlessness—NO has had that for ever. It’s about subhuman violence and lawlessness.
I reread my last comment, and realized I was just advocating for a larger ‘cage’.
Did you ever notice how our ‘freedom’ gets lost, in increments, everyday?
Like a broken levee, and water….there is no real equilibrium
Because they are shooting at helpless people and rescue workers. You need to set an example. They are now shooting at ambulances. WHY? They are willing to kill anyone just because they can?
“Did you ever notice how our ‘freedom’ gets lost, in increments, everyday?”
Watch the news. This isn’t about freedom getting lost, this is about savages tossing their freedom out the window and taking it from others.
News report on TV from a medical supply chopper. As he was coming in to land at a hospital with very much needed supplies the pad was surrounded by armed thugs.
Hey Scott…
I’m poor. Mind if I steal your car? Maybe assault you and your family. Put you in fear of your life?
Also, don’t you think that are are plenty of honorable poor folks left in NO who agree that the armed thugs should be shot?
The protection of stores should be up to the store owners and employees. If I owned a store there I’d be in there shooting at looters like the Koreans i L.A. during the Rodney King riots. Better to go out like a man.
Another thing I don’t see happening. Why don’t people just walk, swim, crawl, or do the worm right out of that city. You could walk to Baton Rouge in the 3 days they’ve spent sitting in the Superdome. I undersand the very young, old, and invalid staying put but if you’re able bodied….you should be long gone by now.
You can’t tell me that some of these looter types aren’t enjoying this. There must be some great “mo money”, “mo money”, “mo money” deals out of the back of a van in Baton Rouge or Houston.
These looters, armed thugs, gangs of young men that are firing on the rescuers and raping women… for what reason would they possibly do these things? What could they possibly hope to accomplish? This is a time of desperation for many who have lost everything. Literally everything. Instead of reaching out to those in need and lending a helping hand, they crush the morale and spirit of those who are in desperate need of help.
Their actions (firing at innocent civilians and law enforcement, looting, raping, hyjacking supply vehicles, burning trash in the streets) are reminesent of those that have been seen in areas of the world like Somalia (Mogadishu) and Niger. I never in my wildest dreams would have ever thought that I would see Americans play the role of a warlord which is essentially what these scumbags are doing.
The media is reporting that the huricane victims are living like animals. This is very unfortunate. Maybe the media should also point out that the armed gangs that are terrorizing the real victims ARE animals.
When a rabid dog bites or kills it’s put down. The animals that are in New Orleans need to be put down. Zero Tolerance! There is absolutely no reasonable explanation for this behavior! It shouldn’t matter how poor you are or how disadvantaged your life has been. Those are pathetic and extremely weak excuses for this behavior. No one deserves to be raped or terrorized or denied aid.
I think a group of vigilantes needs to take care of this situation. There is a need to protect the innocent and the weak from these animals. We shouldn’t use our valuable resources such as the military and National Guard to take out the garbage. People volunteer to clean up trash from the sides of city streets all the time. This is no different.
Everyone affected is in a struggle for survival. However, in the media coverage of the aftermath of Katrina, Black people are “looting” while White people are “finding” food. :-(
I’ve skimmed through some of your comments…Main Point to this whole tragedy—get those who need medical attention, basic life necessities and find loved ones lost to a safe spot so they can BEGIN the process of recovery. Whatever happens in between these efforts is in God’s hands. People die everyday and there is nothing we can do but pray for them. For those who choose to act aggressively and express great stress and anger because understandably their mental, physical and emotional states have been pushed to the limit–it is Truly going to be survival of the fittest……I can only hope that God will give these people the faith and strength to see hope and light at the end of the tunnel……In the meantime, WE are here to help in any way we can….
Everyone affected is in a struggle for survival. However, in the media coverage of the aftermath of Katrina, Black people are “looting” while White people are “finding” food.
It’s all looting, and you know it.
As for those photos that have so many nitwits upset, notice that they were by different photographers and from different agencies, which probably have different editorial policies. [Recall that Reuters refuses to use the word terrorist at all for an example]. Basically, it’s a non-story.
Do you vote using that brain?
On the finding / looting photo thing….
Square these two ideas in your heads:
a) The media is racist for saying that blacks “loot” and whites “find”.
b) When there is black on white violence, it’s rarely reported and usually without comment. When there is white on black violence, it’s a major news event and usually “racial motives” and “hate crime” are suspected.
I was in South Central during the LA riots for almost six hours the first night when all hell broke loose and I got to see block after block after block of looting. Sure, the blacks in Los Angeles that night may have been pissed off and felt rioting was their way to make a partial settlement on whatever they felt were injustices and slights. But the reality I saw that night, and what I see in NO, is a group of subhuman opportunists experiencing the rush of being able to do any evil and twisted thing they want without any real chance of getting caught. These people are living out their wildest, most ecstatic dreams and those who dismiss their criminal behavior on desperation and unfortunate circumstances give these thugs a free pass.
Let’s acknowledge that many blacks have been dealt a bad hand. But let’s also acknowledge that they have choices and the ones the criminals made years ago in LA and are making now in NO shows the world who they really are.
I have been glued in front of my TV and PC for the past few days and I have yet to see anyone stealing TV’s, computers, or large appliances. Oh yeah those black people are stealing Plasma TV
BAD KARMA. What our Government and Troops are doing to the innocent people of Baghdad are being manifested in our own backyard.
Mother Nature is reminding us of what torments we brought onto those innocent people in Iraq under our greed for OIL and using false pretense of WMD and lies to invade IRAQ.
God fearing people will see this truth. Unless we do something to stop people like PAT ROBERTSON, GEN. TOM BOYDKIN, and RUMSFIELD from causing grief on others; our Nation and her people will continue to suffer from Natural disaster such as this one.
Bring our TROOPS home – to stop these looting and raping, and bury our deads.
We Americans must repent now before we are sunk deeper in sins that we are allowing our Government to do to others.
SOM
PS – while you’re shooting the evil black people taking food, clothing, and water to survive please save at least a few bullets to put in the gas station owners that “looted” your pockets charging you almost $4 a gallon for gas
Please…..
Your moral equivalency is disgusting. Raping, killing, shooting at and stealing from relief workers are as wrong as raising prices after losing 1/4 of our refinery and port capacity?
And Mr. Mother Nature….I guess you’re the type of person who says AIDS is mother nature’s way of teaching us which orifices to use for recreation.
You said you haven’t seen looting as described here? Check your eyes…
Better yet:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanmgregory/39432467/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanmgregory/39040535/in/photostream/
Found those in about 30 seconds.
From WWL tv:
:15 P.M. – (AP): Police say storm victims are being raped and beaten inside the New Orleans Convention Center.
About 15,200 people who had taken shelter at the convention center to await buses grew increasingly hostile.
Police Chief Eddie Compass says he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly beaten back by an angry mob.
Compass says, “We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten.”
He says tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon.
In hopes of defusing the unrest at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city’s unflooded west bank for whatever relief they can find. But the bedlam appeared to make leaving difficult.
This. Cannot. Be. Justified.
Dizzying. It’s dizzying. I can’t believe the most active blog is the one about the looters. Shoot ‘em, or not shoot ‘em, or shoot ‘em, or not shoot ‘em, or shoot ‘em, or not shoot ‘em… Can someone offer commentary that doesn’t resemble a rut? You guys have cured my insomnia. Good night!
Looters, it is NOW a known fact this will happen in disasters and emergencies, and there should be a plan (in the works) from the powers that be, on exactly how to handle this population. So that for the next time, future looters will know what is expected of them and what consequences (if any) they will face. Its the local govts and the fed govts duty now to take looting and looters in (life-threatening situations) seriously.
Check these links. The first pic in the first link is very intersting.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:xzO1PZXCCHAJ:www.flickr.com/photos/firewall/38725768/+%22hurricane+katrina%22+racism++survive+loot&hl=en
http://www.gnn.tv/jump.php?id=F07734
Check these links. The first pic in the first link is very intersting.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:xzO1PZXCCHAJ:www.flickr.com/photos/firewall/38725768/+%22hurricane+katrina%22+racism++survive+loot&hl=en
http://www.gnn.tv/jump.php?id=F07734
There is a small minority of people that have stolen thing s such as jewelry, and that is being used to justify HOLDING people in the city not allowing them to salvage for food and warm clothing that cannot be resold any ways. Some people tried to leave the city and were stopped with shoot guns. The people where searched for drugs and people are just trying o survive by doing what is necessary and they are being stopped by forced for salvaging for food while they are refused food or to leave all this energy is being spend and used to bring in machine guns and bullets to try and stop people trying o survive instead of bringing them food. If your watching the news you will notice mixed information coming in. a news reporter on CNN was threatened with being tax audited for the rest of his life etc for saying some things that did not sound supportive of how the government was handling the situation. (free speech?) Can news really report what is going on without threats? Why was the news prohibited to talking to the people at times in the stadium?
There are food available to put in there yet it is not there and supposedly all those starving people are dangerous so military people can
When bushfires ravaged Canberra, Australia in January 2003, some looting went on. People were already very distressed with losing everything (home, car, lifestyle, their home)in a matter of minutes, with only 2 hours warning of the fire. The looting understandably infuriated people. Signs appeared “looters will be hung”. Emotions were high. Fortunately we have no gun culture here.
The opportunist looting, raping and murdering of residents and helpers in New Orleans is diabolical. I have no compassion for the perpetrators and support the shooting of armed looters/gangs/looters. They are impacting on innocent victims in a natural disaster. They are hampering humanatarian and rescue efforts. The principles of triage would certainly indicate that a shoot to kill policy with these people is necessary. If shoot to kill is unpopular, maybe a hanging of such vermin is required. That way the innocent, calm people seeking help can get their deserved help. Many lives will be saved if help and rescue can arrive earlier.
If the the compasssionate message posters want an example of why people are thinking extreme thoughts, take the example. Aid worker comes into a disaster zone to help, to save lives. Her paramedic companions are shot. She is raped.
Not good enough. If the paramedics could operate safely, they might save 30 lives a day. If three armed vermin are shot for that, then that is worth it.
Good luck people of New Orleans.
Hey All,
Im a journalist currently stationed in Baghdad watching this all from a far. I just wanted to comment on the idea that the media is sensationalizing the looting going on in NO;
This is what news organizations do. We report the extrodinary. Obivously the state of the city and dire need of its citizens are the main concern. But it is the events, that go above and beyond what people expect, what we would all rationalize, is what makes it into the news. What horrifies people, is what is reported on. Unfortunatley if it bleeds, it leeds. Im not condoning this, but that is how news works. No one reports on the blaze and mudane, because it is exactly that.
And Im not saying that the rescue operations are blaze, not at all – but the looting and shootings and raping – in spite of the natural disaster stand out.
I reported from Indonesia in Banda Ache after the tsunami earlier in the year, and none of the people there dishonored those who were lost and dead to sink to such a level of anarchy. And to tell you the truth the citizens of Bande Ache are extremely poor, more so than the standards even in NO, and have been in the center of an all out war between government forces and extremists for years.
So the fact that the media makes a big deal of the break down of order in our supposed free and civilized society is not only important, but justified!
Where is the value system that lets us do this?
And as for reports that may be in correct or doubtful – you have to remember that journalists are themselves going into this city risking their lives to get a story out. Sometimes you dont get it right. I have to sit in this fortified Baghdad office most of the time, and cant go out because of security. The only things I report on are bomb blasts – for the most part – horrible news.
The whole world is watching us – how we act. Lets try and mantain the dignity that supposedly makes us a great moral country.
BNL
The people that say just let them loot are probably the same people that said the Iraqi’s couldn’t handle freedom when they started looting after the fall of Baghdad. What a bunch of hypocrites.
If your looting for survivial that one thing.
If your looting to profit from someone else’s misfortune that’s another thing.
Mother Nature’s way of cleaning house!
One question? Why didn’t they leave when they were told too? They had two days to get out and they didn’t, yes I know they couldn’t afford to, they had no money, etc. Why? One word!! Education! I’ve been to New Orleans and other places in the South, and the lack of education is unbelieveable! Education brings wealth, wealth brings safety!
Good Luck to those that made it out and to those who didn’t!
I lived thur the Flood of ‘97 in Grand Forks, ND and I don’t remember the NG having to be:
These posts are a way of venting our emotions and disgust for the suffering of our city and the Gulf coast. The state of Louisiana and the city of new orleans political and infrastructure leaders are to blame for this total breakdown of responsibility. Elections will clean the slate and all should be voted out of office.
The sad truth is this city should never be rebuilt. The location is wrong and future disasters will ensure history will repeat this horrible event.
The poor will never return. Only those with insurance, the wealthy and large corporations will ebuild.The “New” New Orleans will have a new face of social and economic change.
This pretty much sums it up….
Tuesday, August 30, 2005 — “Hardest hit were the poor, who didn’t have the means to escape,” — Charles Gibson of the ABC evening news.
We’ll set aside the fact that anybody who lives in a city which is below sea level, and located on a coast which historically suffers hurricanes each year, is just plain moronic if they are surprised by bad weather and flooding. If there are people in America who are that stupid, we should ship them to an enemy of ours. Now, what I’ll do here is focus on the trapped in poverty business Charlie Gibson and the other bleeding heart major media stars are portraying in their reports.
The premise hangs entirely on the idea that poor people don’t have cars. That may be in some part accurate in New York City, but in the legendary American South — the land of Smokey and the Bandit, Dukes of Hazzard and NASCAR? I don’t buy it for a second.
Okay, that objection registered, a previous piece this evening about the price of gasoline (on CBS), showed the intelligent people of Utah car pooling to survive the high cost of travel. I am unaware of the Louisana highway rule that allows only one poor person in each automobile, so if one in five poor people in New Orleans has a car with both front and back seats, then all of them had a way out of town. (This escape statistic doesn’t require recognition of mass transit, motorcycles, horse drawn buggies — of which New Orleans has many — or even bicycles, which in Oregon allow travelers to reach their destination before the gridlocked traffic.)
How odd the big network affiliates didn’t mention this obvious fact. Postulate that one out of five has a car, and even if they have to push it part way, they all get clear of the maelstrom.
And, now we move on to the hundreds who were plucked from their roofs. “Their” roofs. Homeless people don’t have a roof over their head. People who have a roof of their own have a car of their own, or have neighbors who have one.
And, now we move on to the urban poor in the “hoods.” All the video of the looting indicates that the economically disadvantaged in New Orleans have no compunction about kicking in doors, and they are in physically good shape. They dart in and out of those stores like foxes, and some of them come out towing the displays. Since all these same video segments showed that New Orleans has a great many buildings of two or more stories in height, one may ask why except while looting, anybody in that core area even had wet feet. .
Liberals and other brainwipes will find this essay shockingly critical in nature. I will be labeled insensitive, even inhumane. That is more baloney. To them, everybody living at or below the federal poverty levels was a victim of capitalism before the storm even hit the beach. The readers of this magazine do not, however, bite on that hook. They know that many choices are made by people in their lives, and that futures are affected by those choices.
Most of the victims — not all, but most — in this media scenario are victims of their own bad judgement. One may pity them for that, but to pity them for the price they pay when that bad judgment causes them to be stuck in a bad place at a bad time? No thank you. Mother told me that when she was a kid way back in North Dakota, she learned that if you drink too much at the picnic, don’t bother to blame somebody else when you fall in the lake.
The black student who listens to gangster rap and believes school is for fools who have bought the white cracker’s propaganda. The brown kid who buys the La Raza line and joins the gang and drug scene. The white meth addict whose face ages forty years in two years on that drug, and who turns into a scavanging thief to keep the poisonous hits coming. All of them are in a mess of their own making unless somebody held a gun to their head and forced them to take drugs, rob people and quit school.
I have great sympathy for roughly ten percent of the “poor” portrayed as victims by the networks during this disaster. I have no sympathy for the looters. People who act sensibly and prepare for such things don’t need to steal their food or water, or their blankets which keep them warm. The application of common sense — like six poor people in a car heading away from the coast prior to the storm — would have saved literally hundreds of them. This liberal network fairy tale that all are helpless victims who are unable to defend themselves because of their poverty is a load of crap.
I credit much of the misery visited on the poor during this disaster as originating in New York City, in the newsrooms of the largest television networks, the largest news magazines and the largest newspapers in the nation.
I repeat: people in Utah can carpool to save on gasoline costs, but the poor people of the coastal South can’t do it when they have three days advance warning — to save their own lives?
Want to know the truth?. A very high percentage of the people who stayed did so intentionally. Some of them died and that is sad, but not the responsibility of some imaginary oil plutocracy, George Bush or Hillary’s imaginary Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. What this fuss (not the property damage or the human toll, but the noise being made by the big media) is actually about is the politics of the American Left. Everything is grist for their political mill. No number of broken or drowned bodies is too high a price to pay for the de-capitalization of America and the coming of the socialist utopia.
For God’s sake, if you read it in Newsweek, the New York Times or the Washington Post, or see it on ABC, CBS, NBC or PBS, don’t believe a word or a picture of it. It’s all counter-clockwize cyclonic spin in this hemisphere.
I’m poor. Mind if I steal your car? Maybe assault you and your family. Put you in fear of your life?”
Okay – it’s really necessary to clarify some things here. There is massive confusion behind property crimes and bodily assault crimes.
1) Force in the name of self-defense is allowed in cases of assault, rape, attempted murder. If deadly force is used against you, you can use deadly force back. If non-deadly force is used against you, you may use non-deadly force back.
2) Deadly force is NEVER allowed for mere property crimes. If someone is stealing your car or tv or whatever, you may NOT use deadly force. The simple policy reasoning behind this rule is that um, life is more precious than your damn TV. Looting is a property crime. You cannot shoot someone for just looting.
However, if someone is looting a store AND assaulting/raping/etc. you, then you move into area of bodily assault crimes. The appropriate level of self-defense and force is dependant on the factual circumstances. So in the case of burglary – which is breaking in a place and stealing – deadly force may NOT be used. However, robbery – which is burglary PLUS assault, force in the name of self defense for preventing BODILY injury, may be used.
Of course force in the name of self-defense has to be used in the cases of rape, attempted murder, assault, etc.
The problem here is that people are calling for shooting looters. The original poster never clarified his position – instead he called for the extremely vague (and dumb) policy of “shooting looters.” He never said whether it was armed looters or unarmed looters. He never said whether it was looters stealing food or tv sets. And if he calls for just shooting armed looters, then he never said whether we shoot armed looters who are merely stealing and not committing bodily crimes.
So, to review – rape, assault, attempted murder – self defense force can be used.
Mere looting crimes – deadly force (shooting) CANNOT be used.
Are you kidding me? The previous post stated that enough people could work together to share vehicles, etc, NOT STEAL THEM (which by the way they are carjacking now, which I don’t know if counts as your tedious assessment of bodily assault)
In such a crisis scenario, if one would have to ascertain whether or not an “armed” looter was stealing for food or fun; and then would have to wait until they were assaulted before force could be used……the initiative would be lost. Basically one is providing the criminal with all of the advantages.
You are also failing to realize that included with the poor, middle class, black, white, asians, green people (need prerequisite political correctness now), tourists, etc.; there are a substantial number of gang members and violent drug addicts who obviously remained. Should the rescuers let the former suffer due to the action of these lovely “citizens”
Again logic must prevail…..it seems as if Ayn Rand was correct…..I was hoping that she wasn’t so correct
The looting has to stop. The shooting of looters has to start. Grocery stores should be opened to looters. Jewelry stores, sporting goods, department stores, specialty stores, you know what I’m talking about, should be guarded and looters shot on sight. I have seen and dealt with these type of people all of my adult life. I am not talking about the color of their skin. I am talking about their mindset. They should have started shooting them on sight when the looting first began. That would have had an effect. Now, it’s too late. Now even mopre people will have to die before the message is clear that this crap will not be tolerated. If they want war, then let’s take it to them and exterminate them while we have the chance. Rid the city of these low lifes and let the civilized people have a better life. After NO is cleaned up and rebuilt, the people who looted will still be thugs and will continue their ways.
The entire situation in NO and the Gulf Coast is the result of poor planning and implementation of relief efforts following the the worst natural AND man-made disaster in our nation’s history.
State and local governments have been stretched way beyond their ability to control the situation since the moment Hurricane Katrina left the area.
This should have been apparent to the federal government about mid day Tuesday when water began lapping at Superdome.
This has nothing to do with being poor, being rich, being black, or making “right decisions”. This has to do with getting aid to people in desperate need of the most basic of supplies required for survival: water, food and simple medicines.
Within 48 hours of the Tsunami, US helicopters were dropping food, water and medicine into SE Asia. We were also strongly lobbying local governments to insert US military personnel to maintain order amid the chaos. Here in our own country, it’s a VERY different story and sad fact that as we approach 96 hours after the event, this type of aid is still only a promise.
I am quite simply amazed at the level of incompetance exhibited by our federal government AND the lack of leadership shown by our Commander in Chief.
My best wishes and greatest hopes for relief go out to ALL that are touched by this terrible tragedy.
-Mike L.
Martial law. Martial law means that it is a serious situation. Have to shoot the looters on sight. Those are verminous garbage that make a disasterous situation even worse. Shoot the thugs, rescue the people and start to rebuild or bulldoze as needed. No time for the thugs.
Martial law. Martial law is an emergency response. Those with going by rule of the law etc etc etc keep wanting to protect the hoodlums and criminals. You who do this, go down there with your compassion and “open a dialogue” with this trash, Go.
I’d rather Shoot the looters. Shoot the gangbangers, shoot those who feed off the tragedy we as a nation are suffering. Get the situation taken care of now !
IS RICK’S CABARET IN THE FRENCH QUARTER STILL OPEN? I WONDER IF THEY’RE CHARGING LESS THAN $20 PER LAPDANCE, AS KATRINA HAS PROBABLY HURT BUSINESS A LITTLE?
Rape is rape, murder is murder; black, white, pink polka dots, those acts are what they are regardless, they are wrong, and must be prevented by any means in order not to exacerbate an already horrible situation. Oh, implications of a God(s) involvement with this tragedy is laughable. Those who wish to know Katrina’s origins, read up on atmospheric thermodynamics, or dynamic meteorology, for starters…
These bleeding-heart types are so predictable and a large part of the reason we have the crime problem — make every excuse in the book instead of holding people responsible for their own behavior.
Nobody in their right mind blames someone taking food/water for survival. I sure as hell would if I were stuck there — I’d feel bad about it at first, but would feel worse watching my wife and sons die of thirst and hunger.
Maybe the hoodlums will swap the stolen TV for food or cash? Are you kidding? Where’s the food to be traded? Where’s the cash nobody had for getting out in the first place? These bums were criminals before the disaster and are merely displaying consistent behavior, to the detriment of the vast majority who truly are victims.
Bleeding hearts cannot stop themselves from nuancing every point to the point a gray goo covers everything and the decision points are lost. While you folks sit and ponder, turn the NG loose on the criminals while the victims are finally evacuated and fed.
New Orleans and all it’s trash needed cleaned up. Unfortunately it took a hurricane disaster to do it. What we are witnessing is the type of people who have always lived in the Big Easy. Killers, rapist and thugs. The police chief left for Nashville a few years ago because it was a hopeless situation. Now, those thugs will eventually have to move to another town. Probably yours or mine. Kill them all. Let God sort them out.
These are criminals who are committing the same crimes during a disaster that they normally do under cover of darkness at night. They need to be stopped by ANY means possible including the lawfull “Shoot to Kill”. Those taking food and beverage from GROCERY STORES are NOT looting criminals but SURVIVORISTS doing what they need to do for their familys existence.
DAVO,
Excellent points! To add: by looking at political demographics it’s obvious that the strong majority of the individuals who are looting, raping, and shooting at police, are people who would consider themselves Democrats! I find it extremely ironic that you have a Democrat (Kennedy) blaming a Republican President, for the actions by people who are by in large Democrats….it’s almost laughable! I am also pretty sure the bleeding-hearts standing up for the criminlas are also by in large Democrats!
For all those that think no politician would order shooting looters. (I am sure this has already been posted somewhere in all these comments)
“Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the looters “hoodlums” and issued a warning to lawbreakers: Hundreds of National Guardsmen hardened on the battlefield in Iraq have landed in New Orleans.
“They have M-16s and they’re locked and loaded,” she said. “These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will.”" By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer
There is no excuse for looting TV’s, jewlery, etc. I can understand food and water. Nobody needs a TV to survive. If you start shooting looters then maybe rescuers can get in there and help the people that are in really desperate situations. I just have a hard time feeling for people who knew this was coming and did nothing to get out. At the very least they could start walking out of the city. Somebody would have probably picked them up.
J, you are an embarrassment to the rest of us Republicans. Go back to sleep.
I have never been to New Orleans but have always considered it a place I would like to visit. That has all changed now seeing the primitives and savages that are running around looting, raping and pillaging everything in sight. These people make some of the thugs in third world nations like Somalia look like sophisticated members of society. This will have repercussions for years to come if tourists shy away from New Orleans due to this perception. If the Governor want to save this regions largest industry then they best start shooting looters and thugs on sight. Otherwise New Orleans will not just be a ghost town tomorrow but for years to come.
Off the AP wire:
Louisiana’s governor is declaring war on looters and others who’ve turned the streets of New Orleans into scenes of chaos and fear.
Governor Kathleen Blanco says 300 National Guard troops have arrived in the city fresh from duty in Iraq. She says they “know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will.”
The Guard troops are carrying M-16’s, which Blanco describes as “locked and loaded.”
Within the angry crowds of people trying to flee the city, shooters have targeted police officers, a security person at the Superdome and possibly a military helicopter evacuating hospital patients.
A Louisiana state police commander says many New Orleans officers have quit, saying they weren’t going to risk their lives to fight looters.
SHOOT THE BAD PEOPLE!
Why can’t crybaby Governoress of Louisiana instruct the LO National Guard in Irak to come back triple quick and help out in their home State ?
Joe – “Looters endanger lives by draining personnel resources that could otherwise be used to rescue people”
Thanks Joe. I wish we had more of this outrage. America has slowly desensitized to this unbelievable behavior. Take the looters and gangs out of the equation, and you make way for:
- people to carry out their plans to get out and make their way to safety and food/water.
- businesses to be able to come back and hopefully clean up their stores and salvage what inventory wasn’t damaged by the water.
There should be zero tolerance to looters and all videos of them should be used as evidence to hunt them down and prosecute them to the extent that they can never do such a thing again and to convey the message that if you loot, you will pay with your freedom for a long time.
your all idiots if you think that these people are any thing more than animals who can only think far enough into the future to plan picking up there next welfare check. any one of them would drop the food and water in there arms to pick up a pair of air jordans or a handgun. shoot em all.
What do we do with wild animals that attack humans? We kill them. Enough said.
What should the residents say to God in their prayers? I suppose that
the Gulf Coast folks might pray along the following lines:
“Dear God, We thank thee for sparing our lives, even though we are
miserable sinners. We thank thee also for taking the lives of so many
who
were obviously worse sinners than we are. We thank thee for destroying
our
homes and everything we own, to teach us a lesson about thy wondrous
power.
We thank the for allowing us to see the suffering and torment of those
without food or water or air conditioning, as a warning of the torments
of
hell which thou hast prepared for us if we don’t do what you tell us to
do.
We thank thee for destroying that wicked cesspool of sin and depravity
called New Orleans, and turning it into a real cesspool. We also thank
thee for destroying all the church buildings there which were centers
of
heresy and blasphemy and false religion. We pray thee to continue to
destroy and devastate across this wicked nation until all the
blasphemers,
fags, abortionists, feminists, evolutionists, atheists, Jews and
intellectuals are wiped off the face of the land so that Christ can
come
soon in glory! Thank you JESUS! AMEN!”
Wow. If you think God’s that way, then, buddy, you don’t know God. Yeah, God’s all powerful, but there’s one thing God can’t do, and that’s sin. And what you describe is sin. Yeah, you don’t know God. But you will someday. We all will. See, a secular perspective is starkly different than a spiritual perspective. In the former, one digs down in the mud of life, like an animal, and wallows because it loves the world and only wants the world… even if the world is an evil place (i.e., looting, raping, terrorizing… those aren’t from God). Yes, as long as “I get what’s mine,” who cares about anything else. That’s the impoverished spirit talking. In the latter perspective, one mourns and reaches out and makes sacrifice to others so that others can have peace (even if it’s a little scrap of food or kindness). But that person, in those very spiritual acts, is transcending the world, and God’s love is reflected in that person’s actions. That’s God. I suggest you get to know him. He’s wanted to get to know you all of your life. Just open up. It’ll shake up your world in a way unlike any storm. It’ll give you the spine to not whine, and do the work we’re all called to do, fearlessly and with joy in our hearts. You want to be tough, be tough for God. Your post tells me you’ve got the fight in you, now let him give you the power and the righteousness. I ask you, which side are you on?
This whole situation has gotten so far out of control I am wondering what kind of situation would warrant the government declaring Martial Law? If this doesn’t qualify, what the hell would it take? The slick Willies in Washington need to declare it now so that action can be taken against these looters and gang bangers that as of now think they are in charge of the city. Start shooting them dead and see if they don’t become a conformist really quickly. Shoot them dead now and save us all a lot of money in the future. No court costs and no prison costs for those animals.
I can see shooting armed looters, these types of laws were meant more for riot control, not natural disaster victims, And please show me pictures of Armed Looters in mass mobs, I haven’t seen any evidence of this, just reports of shots fired, and who knows they could be people tying to get someones attention. I think most of the police resigned because they weren’t scared of being shot, they had issue shooting thier own people, heck we were in vietnam where we had the Don’t shot until your shot at policy, so I take it poor American Citizens are of less value. America is no longer a democracy, its a aristocracy, (which means a government ruled by a small minority, which in this case is the ultra rich)All Hail Bush and the Have more. I think there will soon be a Civil War between the Red and the Blue ( Hmm this could explain why everything has been moving out of the USA), and with Bush’s military realignment, he may be just getting ready to do that. So we all better watch what’s going on. Bush Warns of a divided country, yet he’s the one doing the dividing. Agian in Vietnam our soldiers were not to shoot until they were shot at, But those unfortunate people in New Orleans, my deepest sympothy goes out to you, maybe if you had some oil, Bush might enact a food for oil program for you too. Sad to say Greed is priorty in this country at any cost.
Holy smokes, Vince, buddy, calm down. Take a breath. No one’s out to get you, okay.
I mean, Vince, trace your thoughts for a moment. You jumped from “armed looters” to “Vietnam” to “democracy/aristocracy” to “minority rule” to “All Hail Bush” to “Civil War” and “Red and Blue” to “military realignment” to “divided country” back to “Vietnam” to “food for oil” to “greed.” It’s a vicious ping-pong ball game going on in that head of yours. Might want to, er, have that checked. It ain’t right, bud. You can get help for that.
As what should be done, well 5 days ago supplies should have been dropped off, even if you have to parachute them in, just get them there, what’s so hard about that, it could be done in less than 2 hrs, but over 5 days, this is total madness on the presidents part, even police were looting to survive, 2nd, bring in armed gaurds, I think most people will comply when they have a gun to thier head, heck they got bean bag guns they can shoot looters with, they still make handcuffs, oh yeah, All hail Bush, besides once the military gets envolved those who think they rule NOLA will soon parish to the awesome force of the US military. Heck if they dropped off supplies a while back there wouldn’t have been so much looting in the first place, and hell yes if I was there and starved for 5 days and my baby died as a result of someone incompetence, I’d be pissed too, especially when the media’s reporting on it too, someone should be held responsible for this.
Well I am on a presciption with codine, never knew that cough medicine was so potent, LOL I’ll Stop posting until my mind clears
first i would like to say this. i wish everyone would stop saying the word- looters. you have no idear how these human beings feel. you can never say what you would are would not do till you walkin in the shoes of the men, woman and children. you try not eating, drinking, no rest, heat beating down on you, fending for your family and to top it off….your kids are hungry, weak, scared, dying,or maybe dead. and you kids are looking at you to do something about it. not knowing if its all over for you and your loved ones.this goes on not one day, not two days but now what? 6 damn days now ! who cares if they take things. we are talking about things that will never be salvaged. food that will only turn bad. clothes that will only mildue. i say to all store owners…let um have it. they may not even live another day. lets talk about what will be the future for our what we call our great america! another thing that is very horrible to me is when, i saw a picture of some black man pulling a basket with things in it through water…someone said look at this looter…….then i saw a picture of two white folkes pulling the same, in the same water……and the comment said look they found some survival food. what the hell is wrong with people? maybe god needs to deal with so many more hearts….my crys go out to all americans whos lives are forever changed with pain and sorrow. i pray for the souls that have died. and the souls that are still trapped. i pray for the people that will have to live with thier lost. be blessed and love others, dont down them no matter what you may think of them. you never know when you might be in these shoes. pray !
Can’t we all (bloggers) just get along?
Well, actually this is a saner place than at the AOL blogs…
My husband just came back from an American Red Cross meeting that was preparing volunteers for 3-week deployments. Get this, they are poised and ready to go into Louisiana, but they can’t go in because of the level of violence. They said they can’t put their volunteers at risk until everything is in place to protect them as they do their jobs to help people. So, like everyone said here in their posts, the rotten folks are making life so much harder for the folks who just want to get to safety and reunite with family and begin to start over. My husband put in his application to begin work right away. Hopefully, the violence will subside. There are so many folks who want to help.
What dark monster has crawled into your ugly soul?
Criminals should be punished. Someone trying to live one more day is surviving.
Like most people on this blog I don’t accept excuses for the people who are looting unnecessary things such as tv’s. However, I believe that if the government would’ve dropped critical supplies such as food and water in a more timely manner the amount of looting would have been greatly reduced. The bottom line is the poor response to this disaster greatly contributed to the break down in law and order we are have witnessed.
For the record I served in the Air Force so I can confidently state our response has been completely unacceptable. Anyone who defends how long the response has taken is partisian to the point of being a moron. Furthermore, if you are watching this response and you aren’t angry then you aren’t watching.
Actually, they’re “evildoers.” That fits Resident Bush’s rhetoric a bit more snuggly . . . evildoersevildoersevildoers
The thing is that egalitarian socialists have never wanted to possess anything, let alone kill to protect their dead, lifeless possessions. The only distinction to be made here is self-defense. The only reasonable justification to kill is self-defense. People who value their possessions have created an underclass exactly like themselves. I have not read all the entries; but the ones I have read fail to understand that these looters are the mirror image of the privileged elite. People kill for designer tennis shoes because the elite have placed a value on them and excluded the poor from being able to purchase them. These looters are highly indoctrinated capitalists. They value things, not people. If you kill them, then you should kill all the capitalists who create the desire and then hoard the goods. In my humble opinion, as long as there is underclass, I am of them. As long as there are hungry, uneducated people, I cannot rest. For whom does the bell toll? It tolls for thee. No man is an island. You reap what you sow. Thou shalt not kill. The rich have created this hell. They are rich because they willingly exploit millions to accumulate wealth. You cannot be wealthy without mindlessly sucking the lifeblood out of the poor people who must work for you or starve. In the old days, the exploited were given a day off. They were allowed to rule the streets for a day. They mocked their oppressors. They dressed up as capitalists and pretended they owned the world.
I wanted to live in New Orleans once. New Orleans defeated me in a day. I stayed up all night in a roach-infested hotel room and watched my car being investigated by dozens of bums on the street below. New Orleans is second in corruption to NYC. For the rich to live in New Orleans required massive security. I don’t know the logistics. I just know the levees were always an illusion. I attended graduate schools in Baton Rouge and Lafayette. As long as I knew absolutely nothing, I was rewarded. What else can I say? People are so incredibly stupid that there is no hope. The new city will look like Disney World. All the cockroaches and rats will be swimming in the Gulf’s dead zone.
http://www.KatrinasTruth.com
Katrina brought devestating winds, rains, floods … destruction … and unanswered questions. Lots of questions.
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Looting my ass! How about susvival? The only people who call it looting are a bunch of racists pig haunky muthafuckas! Look at tv and tell me what you would do if you were in those shoes. You cant get to your clothes, your bread box is flooded with water. your refridgerator is floating down the street. Get a life muthafuckas and get off the (black)people of New Orleans’ dicks.
Another thing… They are not looting , or whatever you wanna call it, because they want name brand shit… they tookthat shit because they need that shit. Ya’ll so fuckin shallow and narrow minded. Remember… they don’t fuckin have anything anymore. they’re starting from scratch with out a good gotdayum change of clothes or a decent pair of shoes that dont fuck’n stink from ocean water now.Get a life and quit worring about New orleanites. If it happened in your hood, you’d do the same thing.
WOW…
I must say, I am a person who has an education and have 2 college degrees and am currently living in a project type atmosphere in Connecticut. Not because I want to but because my health is failing and need help for a little bit. This is the only place I can afford to live. I want to tell you all. Not all poor people are lazy, druggies or black. Not all poor people are gangsters either. But the few who thought they could be the newest gang of tyrants to make history, probably just a handful in New Orleans made the entire world believe it was like the entire community was involved. To me that is pure ignorance. If the military came when they heard that shots were fired on rescue people by snipers they should have gone in with the military copter and took them out. Those hoodlums would be taken care of instantly. Its because the military was not there for the people that the FEW thought they could reign. Those FEW are the ones who created the crime issue. Not an entire city of more than 650,000 people. These FEW people are the gangsters, looters, crime mongers, killers….just a few. And it shows how ignorant people really are to beieve otherwise.
The wrath of instantaneous governmental intervention for this catastrophic event will ripple throughout come election time, especially, the local elections. The people of Louisiana really need to look at the past and the present administrations and see the deplorable way the past has lead to the present conundrum and quagmire.
There needs to be accountability at all levels of government for the mishandling of affective management of prompt services. The voice of the people needs to be heard, not the voice of the politician, as they should be stifled from speech, as I see it they have squandered their time, and our tax dollars, which were to be used to build for just such a situation, and this never came about.
Gross mismanagement from the oval office down to the level of the police commissioner
To the people of nola and the rest of the USA.
Get a job. Pay taxes. Obey the law.
Or
Just shut up and die.
calm_rational you are an idiot and obviously a person of low intelligence. If all you have to contribute to this discussion is “To the people of nola and the rest of the USA.
Get a job. Pay taxes. Obey the law.” then you are as pathetic as the criminals running wild in NO.
Perhaps you should shut up and die…..
Yes I like that.
(As long as you don’t come flipping on a video of some unarmed dude being shot with a biggie pack of diapers of course -I appreciate that it could go that way but I’m willing to give common sense a chance at least) And you can send me the diaperman’s grieving incensed family member too. I’m not giong to evaporate in an unexpected cloud of guilt, -as bad as I would would of course feel.
Here’s the ting. =||==||= _issed over the dilly-dallying to make help start happening? Me too. But you do that and you GOT to accept that you give the OKay to apply some level of ad hoc “martial law” of one kind or another. And you don’t necessarily get to say how much either. The President DOES. |=| That’s what a President’s for. Like a sherriff. Sometimes he gets to embody the law above the law when there’s this kind of thing for which the law is suddenly inadequate. Why do you think people feel he can be held responsible? Technically all he did was start by taking the confines of the law upon HIM seriously. His first day impulse was to not overstep the legal contraints upon HIS powers as president in the situaation. I don’t like Bush, but I wouldn’t have hesitated to back him up on that one. I don’t know how many other people who felt dissapointed with him days ago can honestly say THAT.
You want to shoot a few looters
or let a few old people and babies die in need ?
I’m whith JOE B on this one.
GROW A SPINE and MAKE A CHOICE.
Then of course you give the chief you sincere prayers and hope with any luck and grace there will manage to be a little less death in BOTH groups if possible. But you got to back up your leader ONE way or ANOTHER, you don’t just ask your top person to burn the candle at both ends and whine about the results.
also there’s antother very simple thing that you have to consider. While y’all whining about the sophisticated complexity of this whole TO-be—or-NOT-to-loot (as Shakespere would put it)
You got some water or diapers or nice calvinKline underwear(you didn’t get to do laundry this morning) in your hands AND suddenly you hear a gunshot?
DROP THAT S**T right away !!!
It’s fairly simple, though few are willing to admit
COMMON SENSE my fellow Americans, I don’t care HOW much looting your inclined to do in your off/Katrina hours of fun. Loot all you wan’t. But if you find yourself in some kind of once-in-a-lifetime Katrina kind of event. Think twice if you hear a gunshot. ESPECIALLY if you ain’t been see’in no police around for awhile. You like police. You know dere’s certain rules. Like maranda and all that. OTHERWISE -been nice knowin’ ya you silly dumb*ss kid, I got’s me some needy/sick people to to go tend to. And I’m droppin’ what I’m carryin’ to them if’n I heeres me a gunshot, simple as that.
chances are you might die anyway if your not willing to apply a little common sense in your new endofthe/mississippi-side environment anyway
lots of irrevocable things are giong to happen in those first few days/ that’s just how crisis goes/ crisis means decision-time / for all kinds of folk\ presidents, looters, untrained tenders of the infirm, guardsmen finally allowed in by their superiors to help, floating boats and attic-bound kitty-cats too.
Even the Coast Guard heroes on day one////\//had to make all kind of unpleasant decisions about how to find people and who to leave awhile\ and you can bet your but they didnt let it slow them down. You pause, take a breath, and DECIDE and GO TO IT.
When it’s all simmered down, then you take a nice break from making any big decisions for a while. (Because THEN you’re more liable to screw things up untill you’ve had weeks to simmer down off the intensity of it.)
I just do not get you people consumed with the fact of siding with these thieves and flagrant murderers who have been running around New Orleans way before this storm every hit. Now, they just have the freedom of geography and the lack of policing to go ahead and commit demonic damage openly without being stopped by an occasional willing individual with the wherewithall to stand forth and try and stop them. Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods, and thou shalt not kill, not to mention you should obey the common laws laid by the land or community, which are the laws of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the laws set forth by state, and city ordinances, which is all laid out in the biggest book of morals all should at least try to abide by the Bible, Tora, Q’uran, etc.
These people were told to leave, if they couldn’t leave to get to shelter. The shelter was there. The walked out in 4 foot of water, what was wrong with walking out while there was no water, pure laziness.
I do feel a lot of this is to blame with the lackluster governing and blame the local, and state government for not moving people out faster, and more effectively, and for man’s sake, they had the buses, which they so carelessly left to drown in the bus barns, instead of moving them out way before time. All of these mindless politicians are old enough to know Betsy, and Camille, and should have known the damage would be 10 to 100 times worse than either of those storms.
Regarding the statement of the above-mentioned statement about the “People who value their possessions have created an underclass exactly like themselves.” Dammit, education is free, the yellow bus sytem is free, and getting a job is free, work for your so called material possessions and build some character as to what is your possessive nature, and what is your need in life, and utilize some cognitive thought as to who gives a flip what Boo Boo has on his feet, or Joe is driving. Bling for sure didn’t come from the have’s, it’s a most assured urban slang, and propietory demonstrative. Perhaps all those rappers and hip hop videos, as well as the sports stars showing their bling bling has implemented this want not the suburbia have’s who have garnished an education out of succession, and desire, and not because they were moved through education because they could play ball, or rap about killing, treating women badly, and smoking dope!
Andi
These are some of the saddest post I have ever read. Do you know what the real problems are with NO and evidently our nation is the total lack of morals and compassion.
We stand and critize people for not leaving NO. How many of you offered a senior citizen, or a young single parent, or someone with a disability a ride? Where was your compassion? I say shame on you? Get the stick out of your own eye.
As far as the looting. Yes there are some that will take advantage of a situation like this for their own personal gain. But that is just a small percentage of what is happening in NO. The majority is for survival. Violence begets violence.
Yes there were mostly black people looting, however, that would be because the percentage of poor and sick in this country are black. But I also seen white and hispanics looting.
The whole situation in NO should be looked at in our nation as a whole on how we treat the poor, sick and elderly.
Yes NO is our energy port. However, that does not make it any better that the rest. NO is part of a body. The body works best as a whole, however never think that the body can not function without a leg or two. However, NO cannot function without the rest of its body. I don’t think the leg does much good by itself. It will just dry up and die.
Within our country there are other cities, counties, and states that are just as important. We need all our body parts to function to our best abilitie.
It is time to stop the BS and work together for the greater good of our nation.
The people of New Orleans should have used some of the cars I see parked in front of their homes, to get out….No gas, please, I see them with cell phones and cigarettes.
The mayor should have used all those school buses to evacuate, and put food in the shelters before hand….what was he thinking?
Education is the way out of poverty, everyone should be made to stay in school, at least get a high school education.
Rappers are not the answer for these young people, mimicking them is stupid. And joining a gang will only lead to being downtrodden.
Having one child out of wedlock is a mistake, having more is stupid.
And I would like to know, if anyone can tell me, how many illegal aliens do you have there, and are they gangs?
If they are, the government of New Orleans should have kicked them back to their countries long ago..as well as every State that has them.
Stop what you are doing and listen to Rush Limbaugh on WPAP online or the archives later. He is reading out the whole evacuation city plan that SHOULD have been followed and was not.
It includes using BUSES and all city resources to get those out who cannot do it on their own FIRST.
He has the facts please listen and then decide for yourselves who is to blame. It ain’t the white folks let me tell you.
Heloise
Too bad this blog ended on the hateful notes of Juan’s sad and stupid song.
There are so many levels of sociopathy at work in this situation that it’ll take a governmental commissions worth of monkies, typing for the next thousand years, to put a positive spin on this whole situation …
God help us all. This blog has proven my opinion that the 10% rule is true.
The 10% rule says 90% of the people around us are idiots. Reading many of the posts lately proves it.
Juan is a dumb, mixed up, cock sucking, birthed by a bitch, probably got his ass kicked by blacks all his life, and still gets his ass kicked by blacks, shit sucking, booger eating, suck ass, double drag, getting fucked in the ass by other extremey racist dillweeds, pussy ass, hiding behind a computer spitting racial slurs, coward ass, gone get his teeth all knocked straight the fuck out if I ever see his ass, Dope Fiend Junkie! Juan, tell your momma I said to leave me a voice mail if I miss her call. Me and my boys wanna run another train on her, and that good ole’ head she got on her shoulders.
I have little sympathy for those that have made a bad situation worse through looting non essential items for their survival when aide took so long in coming. I fully support those that are trying to provide legitimate assitance in the severely damaged area of NO. I’m sure there is much fault to be be found when considered from many varying points of view. Nevertheless, I am concerned about those with mentalities not much different than the looters, that would use the excuse of looting to use others for target practice. Every state should have an understood response to disaster that would be the same for every citizen, whether rich,poor, black or white. The tradegy in NO in many ways brings out what is best and worst in humanity. Those quick to suggest shooting at others might consider looking in the mirror first to consider what part of humanity they best represent. I seen more evidence of comparsion for a charging vicious dog a police officer refused to shoot at, who was finally tasored by a fellow officer. The tragegy in such a propososal to shoot on site, is that in most cases the accused will end up dead with no one knowing the true circumstance as to why they were shot.