This voting thing….
Normally, when it comes to voting and most other civic obligations, they sort of get funneled into the “don’t gives a damn” box in my brain. But for some reason this whole thing that the NAACP “would challenge the results in court if they do not meet levels of participation the group deems proper” really bothers me. I don’t know why I care, but I do know why it bothers me.
The reason the NAACP is even involved is due to a fear of an under-represented African American community in the up-coming elections due to so many people being evacuated. And while I like the idea that Groups like the NAACP keep an eye on things like this, I don’t like the idea of them making not-so-veiled threats. And, really, do they have legal grounds to challenge election results given the situation? Maybe, I don’t really know. What I do know is that by the time the elections happen, evacuees will have been evacuated for 8 and 9 months. That’s a hell of a long time. I mean, do evacuees really have a “right” to vote in the upcoming elections in New Orleans if they’ve been living in another part of the country for 8 months.
Let’s take one example and see if it makes sense. Let’s imagine someone evacuating right before or after Katrina and go to, say Houston. At first they stay in a shelter or with friends and after a month or so, start to get down to business. They get their kids back in school (in Houston). They use their FEMA money to get some interview clothes and other things needed to get a job. They get a job. A month or two after that between work and more FEMA money they manage to get a modest apartment. At this point maybe they get a Texas Driver’s License and have utilities turned on like water, gas, electric, possibly cable, etc. Depending on when their birthday falls, they may have to have the tags on their car renewed getting Texas plates and paying Texas POV taxes. So, in our example, our either over-simplified or particularly lucky individual, is pretty well settled around 3 to 4 months after they evacuated. Isn’t this person, in a very real sense, a resident of Houston,Texas? And even if some or all of those things didn’t happen, doesn’t the point stand? Now, let’s say someone evacuated and didn’t do any of those things and has been sitting in a hotel and now an apartment somewhere for the 8 months as of the first election, they aren’t going to fucking vote so it’s a moot point (lazy bastards). The only exception is possibly older, retired people, eh, and hell, depending on how old they are, they may still think they’re in New Orleans. Just send them down to the ATM on the corner and tell them they’re voting.
Look, enough of that, I’m getting on my own nerves. I don’t mean to address the myriad of possibilities of why people are still evacuated from New Orleans 8 and 9 months after the storm. There are too many variables. My point is, and will remain that if you aren’t here then you don’t get to vote here. Vote in Texas, or wherever it is you live now. Military personnel being a long standing, and justifiable exception to that rule. I’m not saying people don’t have a right to vote - of course you do - so vote where you live, not where you lived last year.
And what really gets me is that the city is going to have to spend a couple of million dollars trying to ensure that everyone in the country who isn’t here gets to vote. Money the city doesn’t have. The cost aside, we’re opening ourselves up to all kinds of voter fraud opportunities. How do we verify people aren’t registered in another state, how do we know they aren’t here and mailing in one vote while casting a second in person? After 8 and 9 months, if you haven’t been able to come back to New Orleans then you don’t live here anymore. You aren’t contributing to the rebuilding and you aren’t paying taxes here so why should you get to vote. Those of us who are here, are trying to contribute to the rebuilding and are paying taxes have a right, I think, to ask why millions of dollars should be spent trying to ensure evacuated voters are given an opportunity to vote instead of being spent on the recovery of the city. I seriously question someone’s ‘right’ to vote after having been living somewhere else for the better part of the last year. If you want to vote in the election then bring your ass back to the city on election day and vote.
Furthermore, I’m bothered by the fact that no one is even asking this question that I know of. It’s almost like everyone, collectively just said ’sure, whatever’. I guess everyone was afraid of offending someone. Not me. If questions offend you; that offends me so we’re even. Will someone please tell me why someone living in another city for eight and nine months has a right to vote in New Orleans!
Related posts:
I was talking to my ex-girlfriend last night, who is now living in Seattle. She got something in the mail recently with instructions on how to vote in the upcoming N.O. elections. She has no plans to return to the city, yet she plans on voting in the election because she feels like making her voice heard.
How is it that people who have abandoned the city and have no intent on returning deserve a voice in the city’s future? I call bullshit on that. I’m with you, Jack. If people feel that strongly about it they should make the trip back to vote here. Their names will still be on the books. Mail in voting is just asking for trouble.
I don’t care about the mail-in as much as I do about a delay. Hello, what about my right to vote?
If you’re not planning to move back to the city AT ALL, then you have no business voting here. But, if you don’t know, why not? That comes down to a personal honesty system, doesn’t it?
If you love New Orleans that much, don’t screw it up for the people who live here.
They’re American’s!!
Laurie
Are you suggesting, Laurie, that we let the entire nation vote on who gets to be the next mayor of New Orleans? I’ve double checked and I don’t think I was arguing that they are Chechnian villagers. What the hell are you trying to say?!?
What? What’s that girl? Timmy’s trapped in the old abandoned mine?
Ok, now they’re Americans, but in another post you want us to secede and for all Lousianan citizens to learn Cajun, patoie and whatnot. Who’s lost it now? [And I mean that in all humor and friendship.]
Jack, don’t stop blogging, man. You crack me up.
The NAACP threats bother me as well. No one (to my knowledge) is trying to phscially prevent people from voting for sinsiter purposes. Money is a huge factor. Mail-in voting is open to fraud. Besides, since when has the NAACP ever represented the entire Af-Am population of any locale? Never. Who made them the determinor of such things as “acceptable levels” of voter turnout? I dont’ like that tact at all. It sets a bad precedent.
But I do have to partially disagree with you, Jack. Many people are living other places and plan to return - when there’s housing available. I know many N.O. residents still here in Memphis want to go home, but until FEMA, contractors, schools etc. settle out - they can’t. Those people are entitled to vote. But if you’ve moved to Seattle, or Houston or where ever and have no intention of returning, then you should not vote, even if you are theoretically eligible. Your voice has been heard via your feet. I’m with Maitri’s personal honesty system - which unfortuantely, rests in each individual’s conscience, and well, yeah. Good luck with that.
How can you be born in America and be African first?
I’m not the only one yelling!
Laurie
Fair enough with the intent and honesty system thing. And it isn’t a bad idea in theory, but in practice its less graceful than Mr. Magoo with ‘roid rage’.
Intent is almost imposible to prove so trying could lead to litigation. So, the only thing you can do is send everyone a ballot, which brings us to the honor system. But if you’re going to send everyone a ballot, then you’re already spending the money and giving people the option. I think the honor system is implied in all elections. What’s the difference in this theory of honor systems and saying, ‘vote if you want to’?
Now as for the effects of voting on the outcome of the election: I didn’t address that because I really can’t tell if it would change the outcome. It is a more intersting argument to talk about that. What if there’s a divide between the people in town and the people out of town. It seems likely there would be since both groups have different priorities and needs.
For example, let’s say candidate #1 runs on a platform of rejuvinating housing to ensure every resident who wants to return can. And candidate #2 runs on a platform of improvement of business and infrastructure, then having accomplished that, will then roll that revenue into revitalizing the housing market so people can return. It isn’t hard to imagine people on the ground here in New Orleans might like candidate #2 whereas people still in a state of evacuation might like candidate #1.
It begs the question: who’s in a better position to decide the leadership of the city? People in town are going to be driven in part by frustration at the lack of services and the slowness in getting permits, elect. and such. People out of town are going to be driven in part by a heart-wrenching desire to return to the city.
So who would likely win the election?
As far as absentee voting goes, I’d like to see exactly what people are receiving in the mail and what the instructions are. You do have to prove you’re a resident to vote such as showing a drivers liscence, voter’s registration, etc. At least that’s the way it usually works. Also if someone is planning on returning they do have a right to vote. Look at college students or those off fighting in Iraq? Are you saying they can’t vote because they’re absentee????and if that’s the case, that’s taking away the individual’s right to vote. Also, people should be responsible voters but that hasn’t been the case in a good while. I shouldn’t say too much because I haven’t heard anything about this or the NAAP. I don’t understand how they can make any decisions regarding this election. No one is saying that a citizen of New Orleans can’t vote (except maybe Jack Ware) but they do have to take the time to apply for an absentee ballot. right?
I agree with many of your comments, especially about NAACP and other outside groups. If they are really worried about people being represented, they should be helping to get absentee ballots into the hands of people who are legitimately registered to vote and can’t come home.
I disagree, though, that if you are living somewhere else, you shouldn’t vote in New Orleans’ elections. Your hypothetical person who moved did not move by choice. On August 28, 2005, these people had every intention of staying right where they were. MANY people have had to go on with their lives elsewhere because they have kids and they have to make money and live a normal life, like getting the gas turned on and getting their expired license renewed. These people are residing in Houston or wherever now, and many of them have no idea what they are going to do in the future, but most of them probably want to return to New Orleans some day.
My point is that if they were registered to vote in New Orleans on 8/29/05 (or whatever the deadline was for the FEBRUARY election date), they have a right to a voice in the city’s future. The results of the election may determine whether or not they can return. They can vote absentee, and their votes will not be counted if they weren’t registered. If they don’t care to go to the trouble to properly vote absentee, their vote will not and should not be counted.
IMO, the thing we have to worry about is the possibility of fraud in voter registrations. Now that we have mail-in registration, you are supposed to vote in person the first time (not absentee)and present I.D. Anyone who has mailed in a registration card since the last election could have a legitimate claim that they can’t come into town to vote. But how many people can this be?
It doesn’t seem fair to deny them the right to vote because they can’t come to town that day and present I.D. The rule is the rule, however. I wonder if Louisiana could send traveling election commissioners to Houston, Atlanta, Baton Rouge and other large evacuee concentrations to check I.D.s? That would lower the number of possibly fraudulent registrations.
The best thing would be if the winner of the election won by a much larger margin than the number of these possibly disputed votes. If the number of disputed votes is enough to decide the election, every first-time voter who registered by mail should be verified. It seems unlikely to happen that way, and I certainly hope it doesn’t.
Needless to say, this is going to be an unusual voting year for New Orleans and Louisiana.
From what Chris said, it sounds like his ex-girlfriend in Seattle received “instructions” for voting in New Orleans, but perhaps not a guarantee that she could? If I’m not mistaken, people have to apply for absentee voting.
If someone doesn’t plan on returning to New Orleans, I don’t know why they would vote in the NO election and relinquish their ability to vote in their new city or state of residence.
If someone DOES plan to return, but they can’t yet, and New Orleans is still their registered home, I don’t see why they shouldn’t be able to vote.
I am kind of curious how the NO/LA government knew to send Chris’s ex-girlfriend voting info in Seattle. I’d also be curious to know if everyone else who was displaced received the same info.
Drury
It is an extra-ordinary situation. Many of the displaced want to return, intend to return, but can’t yet because they have no place to live, and are only absent from the city right now because of a massive disaster. I think those people have a right to vote. They should have a say in the future of this city.
If they have no intent to return — ah, but intent is difficult to measure. It shouldn’t factor in to the question of rights.
Yes, intent can’t come into it for many reasons, one being that you can’t objectively tell. Also, It would not be a factor under normal circumstances. For instance, you can load up your U-haul and move to Alaska, but if you are registered to vote in New Orleans, you can drive that U-haul to your polling place and cast your vote on your way out of town. Your vote will be valid.
I still think there will be a very high level of voter apathy among people who moved away and and don’t intend to return. I don’t think they will go to the trouble of getting an absentee ballot and using it, unless they are political activists.
See, I’m not so sure the obligation to ‘get an absentee ballot’ is with the voter. Everything I’m reading suggests that the city is going to just send registered voters a ballot. I guess I think that since the city was trying to get the address lists from FEMA a few weeks ago so they could compare it to the voter registrations and thus create a mailing list. I agree that less people would vote absentee if they had to request an absentee ballot and then send it back in - I’m just not so sure they’ll have to. If the ballot just shows up in your mailbox one day you’re a hell of a lot more likely to Publisher’s Clearing House that bastard in.
Intend is also tricky because it ties to choice. For example, say I get a job in Atlanta on an 12 month contract so I move up there for 12 months with every intention of moving back when the job is done. Should I still be able to vote in NOLA during that 18 months? Does the fact that I chose to move there rather than being forced out by circumstances change whether I should be allowed to vote?
The only thing that affects whether you are allowed to vote is whether or not you are registered. You can move to France for 20 years and continue to vote absentee as long as you are registered.
Periodically, the voter rolls are purged of people who have not voted in the last so-many elections. If someone moves to another city and registers to vote, they are asked where they were previously registered and the registrar notifies the registrar of their previous residence to take them off the voter rolls. Of course, people can lie, so there is room for fraud. But anyway, Jack, none of these considerations that you are bringing up ever come into play under normal circumstances. The only thing that matters is that you are registered.
I would be very suspicious if they are mailing out absentee ballots wholesale from a FEMA list. That would mean that the person who is now living in my former apartment in Houston will get a ballot. What’s to stop them from filling it out and mailing it in? How could the election comissioners know it was fraudulent before I actually vote in person on election day? God, I hope this does not turn into a debacle.
Jack, you aren’t even registered to vote.
You gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?
I’m conflicted about this whole issue. I understand what is bothering the NAACP. When I joined Breaux’s 1986 Senate campaign, I came into possion of a folder from the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee and the Democratic National Committee on GOP efforts to prevent black people form voting, and it was almost an inch thick.
Most people tend to dismiss this sort of thing as wing-nut posturing, but it’s a fact: it has been a policy of the GOP to try to supress the black vote by any means necessary (well, I think they’d stop short of violence; at least I hope they would. Illegal has clearly not bothered them in the past, as most of that folder was tied up in a court case in Atlanta in which a federal judge told them to cut it the hell out. Louisiana was not in that federal jurisridction, so they moved on to other locations).
Being the victim of an organized, potentially criminal conspiracy tends to make a person testy.
I don’t think that absentee or mail voting need be especially prone to fraud. It’s all about the competence of the people on the receiving end of those ballots. That’s where the problem lies, and it lies with everyone in NOLA who voted (or didn’t vote-ahem-in the past).
This is a special case. I’m glad FEMA was forced to mail absentee ballot *applications* (not ballots) to all of the registered displaced.
As long as voters haven’t registered or voted elsewhere, I don’t think it’s significant that they’ve signed a lease or gotten a drivers license. Most don’t see a clear path to return for months at best. What should they do? Live in their cars? Violate the laws of Texas or Georgia about out of state licenses?
If we can’t successfully carry off this vote after the Federal Flood, then what the hell kind of first-world democracy are we? Can we continue to claim either of those monikers?
No question that Republicans have supressed black voting. Democrats have been guilty of inflating it, too. So much time and energy has been wasted by that idiot Kimberly Williamson Butler. In this election we’ve got to worry about cheating, but we also have to worry about the humidity. I mean the stupidity.