There is no such thing as orderly looting
Looters arm themselves with stolen weapons, terrorize state police, lay siege to Children’s Hospital, and are reportedly ransacking vehicles in parking garages.
Defillo said looters were also taking guns and ammunition. “We’re very concerned about that,” Defillo said. “We will maintain order. Let me say that. We will stabilize the situation.” … Authorities planned to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city.
Heh. Any guesses on how long it will be before one gang of looters is traveling around in an armored personnel carrier?
When you don’t immediately begin executing looters, they grow bolder. They then have opportunities to arm themselves. Screw that “allowing peaceful looting” bullshit. There is no such thing. Looters endanger lives by draining personnel resources that could otherwise be used to rescue people. Some of those people waiting to be rescued will probably die waiting, because of looters.
Gov. Blanco seems to not have a grasp of what’s going on. On the one hand the National Guard is unable to confront looters because they’re all involved in the rescue efforts:
Gov. Kathleen Blanco appealed to the White House to send more people to help with evacuations and rescues, thereby freeing up National Guardsmen to stop looters.
On the other hand, the National Guard people is available to stop looters, but isn’t acting:
On New Orleans’ Canal Street, dozens of looters ripped open the steel gates on clothing and jewelry stores and grabbed merchandise. In Biloxi, Miss., people picked through casino slot machines for coins and ransacked other businesses. In some cases, the looting was in full view of police and National Guardsmen.
Gov. Blanco has the power to order the National Guard to do more than stand around and try to keep the looting orderly. She can order the National Guard to do what they’re supposed to and begin shooting looters en masse until the looters realize they must leave the city. Nobody will notice the extra dozens, or even hundreds, of bodies floating in the flood waters.
Instead of seeing people flee the city via the Crescent City Connection, moving as fast as possible along the West Bank Expressway and out of the area on Hwy. 90, what you’re going to see is looters descending the Crescent City Connection like a horde of locusts, picking the West Bank clean instead of trying to leave town. The last thing people want is to come home to discover that their home has survived the storm and the floodwaters, only to have fallen victim to lawless hordes that were allowed to pillage and plunder without interference.
I understand that our government officials are under enormous stresses and working in terrible conditions. But, we expect our government to retain order. And when order temporarily vacates the area, we expect our government to restore, even if it means shooting people whose actions endanger the lives and property of others. Grow a spine, Gov. Blanco. Do NOT arrest looters. Order the National Guard to start shooting them on sight.
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While I have no problem with the locals getting bread, water and shoes, all the looting coverage on TV is inspiring my neighbors to want to hop down there and pick up some stuff. So you may even get out of state looting “tourists”.
What a horrifying post - I feel disgusted enough to comment. How dare you promote such atrocious action - the last thing New Orleans needs is more death and destruction. While looting is a tremendous problem, I doubt that shooting at human beings is the solution. There’s also a little thing called the Constitution and due process which the Governor is obliged to follow. You’re denying their their right to life over criminal acts. There is absolutely no way any politician in their right mind would call for such action.
There are fathers and mothers looting stores to feed and aid their starving dehydrated children and babies - do you suggest we shoot these looters too? You also have to remember that the people who stayed in New Orleans were the poverty-stricken. There’s a bigger reason behind the looting - these are people who are too poor to even evacuate. All of sudden they see access to money and goods, even though it is worthless at this point. What very little they had is now completely and utterly destroyed.
I don’t condone the looting in any way, shape, or form. But it’s essential to understand why it’s there, and where it comes from. These people have been to hell and back, and they wrongly see free stuff as the temporary solution to tragedy.
You idea to shoot looters is silly and nonsensical. Instead of telling the Governor to “grow a spine,” you should attempt to grow a brain and a heart.
Sorry, gotta disagree . . . in a disaster situation, under martial law, armed looters are to be shot on sight.
Um, excuse me, but you CANNOT depend on the gov’ment to always take care of these kinds of problems. I mean, think of it as: survival. Look to the animals for a clue in how these “survival of the fit” plays out.
what an awful and totally inhuman post - the shops/businesses being looted will be insured anyway. and the folks left behind in N.O. are mostly the urban poor underclass, who are either unemployed or live a paycheck to paycheck existence.
with homes gone, jobs gone, and no hope for the future, is it any wonder that these poor folks are trying to make the most of things.
The folks left behind don’t have anyone to purchase those goods from anyway. Who is left to sell to them? I understand doing what you have to do to provide for your family. And, as much as it is possible I think those people should be left to loot in peace. If you need formula and the stores are all abandoned, what are you going to do?
However, in any other case:
“in a disaster situation, under martial law, armed looters are to be shot on sight.”
Agree 100%, absolutely, no doubt.
Shoot them on sight unless they’re carrying food, water or diapers. If they had shot the first ones carrying off tvs, jewelry and firearms the rest of this looting wouldn’t have happened.
I’m sure some of these looted businesses are not insured. Many small businesses can’t afford insurance. I remember during the Los Angeles riots that many small business owners were devastated because they weren’t insured.
It is only a matter of time before they start breaking into homes.
Shoot them on sight unless they’re carrying food, water or diapers. If they had shot the first ones carrying off tvs, jewelry and firearms the rest of this looting wouldn’t have happened.
I’m sure some of these looted businesses are not insured. Many small businesses can’t afford insurance. I remember during the Los Angeles riots that many small business owners were devastated because they weren’t insured.
It is only a matter of time before they start breaking into homes.
“There’s also a little thing called the Constitution and due process which the Governor is obliged to follow. You’re denying their their right to life over criminal acts.”
Karen, the entire city is under marshal law. They have no rights in Orleans Parish, Jefferson Parish, or any of the surrounding parishes currently under marshal law. If they were discerning enough to limit themselves to looting food and water, we might be able to find common ground. But note the title of the post: there is no such thing as orderly looting. They are now stealing guns and non-emergency items. They are now terrorizing Children’s Hospital and looting the vehicles of downtown hospital workers. These are not “fathers and mothers” stealing for their “starving and dehydrated children and babies.” Those people are making good faith efforts to allow rescue workers to help them. They aren’t stealing guns and laying siege to hospitals and terrorizing rescue workers.
Additionally, the most compassionate thing you can do for the lawless hordes is to begin shooting. The survivors will then more quickly turn to legitimate sources of aid, and they will be better for it. Instead, you have people who will desperately try to hang on someplace where they cannot live for any length of time. And then, many more of them who did not have to die, will. In ways more terrible than being shot.
It’s a tough stressful situation all around, but I can promise you three things:
1) the looting will continue
2) people on both sides will be shot
3) racial tensions in the city are going to pushed to the limits, especially once everyone returns
No matter how you feel about it, it’s a sad, sad situation. We can unequivocally condemn the looters, or we can look for motivations; we can suggest draconian measures, or we can try empathy; but it’s awful place to be, either way. Goes to show how fragile society really is.
so if the cops start shooting on sight, wont the looters start shooting back and make a bad situation even worse?
The folks left behind don’t have anyone to purchase those goods from anyway. Who is left to sell to them? I understand doing what you have to do to provide for your family. And, as much as it is possible I think those people should be left to loot in peace. If you need formula and the stores are all abandoned, what are you going to do?
However, in any other case:
“in a disaster situation, under martial law, armed looters are to be shot on sight.”
Agree 100%, absolutely, no doubt.
“so if the cops start shooting on sight, wont the looters start shooting back and make a bad situation even worse?”
I tend to agree. You start shooting looters. The looters are just going to arm themselves and shoot back.
Let ‘em loot.
And start searching neworleans.craigstlist.org for some good deals.
I’m sorry - but I completely disagree. Even under marshal law, the answer is not killing poor, impoverished, tragedy-stricken people. Think about what you’re condoning - more death amidst destructive fatal tragedy. New Orleans does not need anymore dead rotting bodies floating in the water. As JF states, the stores are insured.
What I meant by my due process comment is that no politician in their right mind would call for the shooting of the looters. This is not a matter of a the governor “growing a spine.” Shooting at looters simply cannot be done - #1, it’s still unconstitutional and #2, it is an inhuman solution to a tragedy. It would be met with hordes of future lawsuits and political fallout.
It’s disturbing that people are so ready to support killing others as a solution.
“Shoot them on sight unless they’re carrying food, water or diapers.”
Two problems with this proposal. First, do you expect the National Guard and police to determine on site what the looters are carrying? It isn’t that easy. “Is that an MP3 player or box of tampons you’re carrying?” If you are going to shoot looters on site then you are going to have to shoot ALL looters, not just ones that steal TVs. Second, some looters are carrying both necessities AND extras like TVs. Do they get shot because they needed diapers for the kids, but also took some clothes because their entire wardrobe was ruined by the flood?
So much overreaction here to the looters. What the hell are they going to do with a TV? They have no home to play it in and no electricity to play it.And they have nowhere dry to store it for a later time where they could sell it. The looting is just worthless activity and should be a relatively low priority for public officials. There are exceptions, of course, like armed gangs that shoot at cops. But the merchandise being looted is probably going to end up destroyed by flood anyway.
Wait just a moment J.F…..”make the most of things” is the weakest justification I have heard of for looting.
In a disaster situation, such as the one in NO, the appropriaton of water, food, clothing and other basic survival needs is understandable and totally forgivable. However lets be clear on something: stealing money, valuables, appliances, electronics etc, from homes or businesses has nothing to do with survival or making the most of a situation. In fact it very much causes what is already a “worse” situation to become an abysmal one.
I absolutely do not agree that looters should be shot on contact by police. This would only exacerbate an already chaotic and violent situation. No, of course they should not be shot at, they would only shoot back and a small arms fire battle would ensue, further detracting from relief and rescue efforts. WHile I do not agree with Joe B.’s original post I totally understand his frustration and anger.
Making the best of a horrible situation involves real strength and unity and staying strong and sane when the easiest thing to do would be to just give up and go crazy. There is no excuse or justification for the looting and violence in NO right now…it is greed, selfishness and weakness exemplified.
the looters are stealing t.v.s and guns not food. next they will be looting homes. when the homeowners get back in THEN we will see some looters being shot. AND RIGHTFULLY SO
If these scumbag looters have the wherewithal to break into homes and busineeses then they can certainly get their sorry asses out of the city where they can eventually be taken to a shelter. But they dont want that, they are stealing tv’s, jewlery, electronics….what the hell are they going to do with them in that environment? They are bragging about how society owes this to them. I agree with this post. Just shoot them. If they are armed they are a danger to resue efforts. If they have energy to be looting they should be helping people get out…..
After Fran, things looked hairy here-till Mr. Hill opened his grocery store back up (Bless him!)in the poor Black section. No power, bills figured by hand and they took your word for it about what you had left on your food stamp card (”bring it back when the power is on”) but people calmed right down, did their shopping and waded home. People want a normal life.
You are not killing poor and impoverished people . . . you are killing armed looters, who are arming themselves and terrorizing other survivors. Or is what happened at Children’s and up in Carrolton at the Rite Aid a gag? These folks in their $200 game jerseys and Nikes, carting TV’s, look pretty well fed . . . no, they are criminals, exploiting disaster, and under martial law, shooting looters whether armed or not is practice.
I’m a liberal, but here is the line. You’ve been ordered to evacuate. You have the chance to evacuate. You go thieving instead, arming yourself, and threatening others.
Shoot them. They’ll stop.
Armed looters have to be confronted at some point. Better it be by National Guardsmen and police than by people returning home to collect valuable and leave again, only to be confronted with armed invaders. Because that’s what concerns me about the situation: the West Bank was largely spared the surge floodwater. But my parents will be going back there next Monday if possible to assess their situation and recover what they can. They certainly don’t deserve to be faced with people waving guns in their face and telling them to get out of their own house. Nobody does. But that’s exactly what we’ll see happening if something isn’t done.
“it is greed, selfishness and weakness exemplified.”
not really Holly - all i’m saying is that if you are poor and in a desparate situation, why not loot that TV - after all, you could , possibly, sell it later on or barter it for food. with jobs gone and an entire city underwater, it’s looking increasingly as if the looting is just a matter of survival.
it does NOT compare in any way to the horrendous looting that went on in the L.A. riots - i really do think that this is an entirely different situation.
and the question all Americans need to ask is - why is it that the urban poor of New Orleans appear to have been left behind? did no one give a damn about them? so , to later on start complaining about looters is a bit rich to say the least.
sorry folks - but with a 150mph hurricane bearing down on N.O. the ENTIRE CITY should have been evacuated - not this laissez fair “jump into your car” evacuation that went on.
New Orleans is not, let me repeat, not under martial law. Under the current situation, the state is empowered to use militia and military police as peace officers, but that’s a very different thing from shooting putative looters dead.
The relevant statute provides that milita and military police activated by the Governor “have all of the powers and authority of peace officers, including but not limited to the powers to make arrests, to perform searches and seizures, to execute criminal warrants, and to exercise such other powers and duties of a peace officer as are reasonably necessary to preserve the lives, property, and security of persons.” This is obviously necessary in situations where the civil courts are not open, but it does not give carte blanche to the military to act as they see fit. Could they arrest people suspected of looting? Certainly. Try them in military tribunals? Of course. But shoot persons who do not pose a threat to the lives of others without benefit of trial? Difficult, even setting aside political considerations. Under current law, it would probably be difficult to convince a court that state law trumps Constitutional protections absent at least a Congressional suspension of habeas corpus.
This is, of course, quite apart from the issues of those looters who pose a threat to others, and whether suppressive fire from Black Hawk helicopters would be effective at stopping looting in general.
For christsakes people - where is your compassion and brain? This is not about liberal vs. conservative crap. This is about an idiotic proposal to create more death and destruction in a a city already ravaged by death and destruction.
Keith - the looters are not all armed. They are children, teenagers, and middle-aged people. They are poor and impoverished, and they have just suffered through tragedy beyond immeasurable means. If you look at your tv screens, you’re not seeing white middle/upper-class folks taking your precious tv sets. You are seeing the poor and the black who did not have enough money to even EVACUATE.
They’re looting because they’re DESPERATE. They have no clothes, no water, no gas, no money, no nothing. Anything they grab is something they might be able to use as currency. It’s seen as a solution to tragedy, even though it is not. It’s terrible, and it sucks. But what would even suck more is to add more death and destruction, as well as racial tension and fear, through shooting.
Shooting on sight… interesting in theory; but then again, I think about Jean Charles de Menezes and I wonder if that’s such a good idea.
Are you even concerned about the property being looted? Or, is it that you wish that you could carry out the executions that you’re suggesting the governor of LA give the order. My guess is that you’re basically no different from those looters. While you might not loot you have no consideration for civil law, only vigilante law. And, in my view, that makes you as dangerous as these looters.
The City of NO can do without the type of plan that you propose. I too, am disturbed and angry with the actions of so few. Yes, I did say “few”. While it may be that those we see looting in the news coverage are from impoverished areas of NO that does serve as indictment of all impoverished people in the area.
There are people of a lawless nature in every state of this great country. Do you suggest that every crime, including misdeanor, be met with shooting on site? Or is it only these folk that should be shot?
I hope you’ve had time to re-examine what you posted and realize that a civilized society must endure many things; i.e hurricanes and looters.
We have methods to deal with them without forgetting that we ARE a civilized society.
John
“It’s disturbing that people are so ready to support killing others as a solution.”
We didn’t say “kill”.
We said “shoot”.
:)
I’ve gotta disagree. What should have happened is that evacuations should have taken into account that one-sixth of the people of New Orleans didn’t have access to private transportation, and instead of herding them into the Superdome to die like caged animals, they should have made a point to get EVERYONE OUT. They didn’t, and now they have tens of thousands of people stuck on an island that is rapidly sinking into a sea of polluted, diseased water. Maybe it’s just me being a bleeding heart, but I see absolutely no reason to make a bad situation worse by going down there and shooting people. The TVs, jewelry, etc., it all would have been gone anyway. It all would have ended up at the bottom of the ocean.
May I ask, where is your outrage over the fact that President Bush cut funding to maintain the levees? Where is your outrage that the National Guard is in Iraq and not in LA/MS, flying around and plucking people off their roofs? That you can muster up this sort of outrage over THINGS but not over PEOPLE’S LIVES speaks volumes as to your moral priorities.
Alana,
Well, I’m thinking if you shoot someone, and there are no medical services available, no supplies, no food, and the shot person is surrounded by putrid rotten flooding water and dead bodies, that person will most likely die.
“The TVs, jewelry, etc., it all would have been gone anyway. It all would have ended up at the bottom of the ocean.”
Are you people *reading* these articles? We’re not talking about TVs. We’re talking about large gangs of people overrunning food donations going to shelters and confronting innocent people. Not 13 year olds getting kicks from stealing TVs.
“City security chief Greg Meffert said he was awakened to help form a human chain to quickly unload a state police truck filled with food. “The truck was about to be attacked by looters. …It had state troopers in it,” he said.
In the city’s Carrollton section, which is on relatively high geround, looters commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a Rite-Aid pharmacy.
…Defillo said looters were also taking guns and ammunition.”
GANGS of ARMED LOOTERS. We may not have declaired martial law, but they sure the hell have.
These are not passive people just trying to get by. These are aggressive opportunists who stayed behind to raid the candy store.
J.F., I agree with you about the apparently somewhat ineffective evacuation. I do not know enough about the specifics of how people were told to evacuate and what steps officials took to ensure that people followed the mandate. I does seem as if more could have been done….but hindsight is 20/20.
The excuse of being poor and desperate simply does not wash in regards to the looters. You mention that this looting in NO is different than the looting that took place in L.A. and you are right: it is far more ridiculous and harmful. Ridiculous because they are stealing things for possible future gain when their very lives are in danger. What good is a T.V. for people who do not have homes? WHat are they gong to do with the box of nikes when they get air-lifted out or put on buses? I just don’t get it. It is harmful because it strains the already over-burdened oficials who are attempting to administer aid and rescue people. It is shameful. Absolutely shameful that a police man or fireman who could be rescuing some one will instead be risking his live to prevent theft of toasters and T.V.s. What about the store owners who will all have to make insurance claims? This will be very hard to do with no products left on their shelves to claim. Have you ever had to fill out one of those insurance forms? It is a nightmare.
Looting has so many negative effects that far outweigh any positive effects that the looter may experience. In the end the looter will still be poor and desperate and possible dead.
I’m sorry I do not feel any sympathy for the looters. I feel sympathy for those who have lost their lives, their homes, their jobs, their loved ones and I feel anger towards anyone who would willingly exploit such a situation for their own personal gain no matter how panicked or desperate they may feel.
“May I ask, where is your outrage over the fact that President Bush cut funding to maintain the levees?”
Those levees have been in danger my entire life. My *ENTIRE* 34 years on this planet and then many more, I’m sure, I have heard what poor condition they were in and how New Orleans can not stand a direct hit from a hurricane.
You want to get pissed about something? Get pissed about that. It was always common knowledge when I was growing up that the city was fucked if those levees broke. But where was the city putting the money? Where was the state putting their funding? Where was the planning for the rainy day?
Just as people were enraged at the lack of a tsunami warning system in the Indian Ocean, the people of New Orleans will be when they realize that their safety was put at the bottom of the priority list.
This was preventable.
Never said they were all armed . . . and I only said shoot armed looters, not all looters. And I said that, under martial law, a looter needn’t be armed to be shot.
I’ve been through a few power outages and floods while living in the Channel, and it always amazed me at how quickly law and order would slip.
Hey, let us be honest here. New Orleans has always been about an uneasy tension between haves and have notes and gentrifying renovaters and old-line neighborhood residents . . . if you ever lived uptown outside of the St. Charles-Magazine corridor from Jackson ave. to the park, you’ve gone through the subtle negotiations to keep the corner boys off your block and worked with a neighborhood association to do what the cops couldn’t or wouldn’t do — police your streets.
You’ve heard a window crash in a retail space during a blackout, and you’ve had someone walk up to your porch and offer to sell you stolen property. You’ve ducked when gunfire broke out near a MArdi Gras parade, and you knwo someone who has been hit by a falling bullet fired in “celebration.”
I’m compassionate — it breaks my heart to see people arrested for making off with diapers and baby formula — but law and order slips by degrees, and in the Big Easy it never had far to fall, because was always barely there. It was part of a tenuous balance negotiated by the residents, and a lot of those who helped maintain the balance are not in town now. There is no counterbalance in New Orleans. And now, Peggy Wilson gets her wish from a dozen years ago — troops will be deployed to the city to enforce the law.
These are tough times, but it started with looting, then went to carjacking, and breaking and entering, and is likely leading to murder, rape, and arson or other destruction of property.
It breaks my heart. But compassion will not save the stranded innocent from the soulless guilty.
If you are in NOLA, stop drinking the water. You are absolutely out of your mind! Yes, it is very disturbing that people are taking advantage of the situation. But, I do understand that there are those that are in need of bare necessities. Those are the people that are desperate scared and running out of options. To say looters need to be shot in this particular time is not only ignorant but irresponsible.
TV’s, Dora the Explorer ride’m vehicles, beer, and DVD’s are necessities?
To not look like a total right-winger, NO is not under total martial law. But:
Martial law clarified
Tuesday, 9:02 p.m.
The state Attorney General’s office on Tuesday sought to clarify reports in some media that “martial law’ has been declared in parts of storm-ravaged southeast Louisiana, saying no such term exists in Louisiana law.
But even though no martial law exists, Gov. Kathleen Blanco’s declaration of a state of emergency gives authorities widespread latitude to suspend civil liberties as they try to restore order and bring victims to safety. Under the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, the governor and, in some cases, chief parish officials, have the right to commandeer or utilize any private property if necessary to cope with the emergency.
Authorities may also suspend any statute related to the conduct of official business, or any rule issued by a state agency, if complying would “prevent, hinder or delay necessary action” to mitigate the emergency.
It also gives authority the right to compel evacuations, suspend alcohol and weapons sales and make provisions for the availability and use of temporary emergency housing.
The law gives mayors similar authority, except they do not have the right to commandeer private property or make provisions for emergency housing, according to a background brief prepared by the state Attorney General’s office.
Source: NOLA.com
I’ll be down soon with the Red Cross. God Speed.
I think you guys should read this. Pay close attention to the bottom, where the LSU student describes watching a man die from gunshot wounds while trying to protect his property from a looter.
http://www.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=1014&CID=449461
It’s appalling that while my boyfriend’s house in uptown may have survived the storm and any flooding, it almost certainly will not survive abject looting - it’s located about a mile from the new Walmart, where all of the guns were stolen.
So let me ask - how are guns, plasma TV’s and DVD’s okay for the oppressed poor to steal from the big, bad insured storeowners? I’m not trying to marginalize the situation of many in eastern New Orleans - if they’re trying to scavenge for life-saving food and water, even Kathleen Blanco has expressed understanding. But shooting at cops because they’re trying to stop you from stealing electronics?
Somebody said that New Orleans was not under Marshall Law. It is under Emergency Status which gives the law and those the law deems responsible the right to forego any citizens Civil Rights. That means they may be shot and killed on the spot without any repercussions.
Thank you Caiti . . . you put a face to the problem. Values are what carry you through adversity . . .
There are two problems with that - 1) posse comitatus, and 2) the National Guard and police are woefully understaffed until reinforcements arrive to help with the search-and-rescue efforts.
New Orleans has devolved into Escape From New York meets Lord of the Flies - who has the conch, though? It’s certainly not the authorities at the moment…
Just to give you guys some perspective, I live in south Florida. In the past year, I’ve gone through Frances, Jeanne and Katrina. My parents, who live in Pensacola, have endured Ivan and Dennis. My boyfriend and several close college friends from FSU are trapped up north in the state right now, trying to make sense of what has happened.
Disaster illustrates both the best and worst in society. In some cases, there are people who will drop everything to help the recovery efforts. In other cases, there are people who will take advantage of the misery of others. New Orleans seems to be suffering from a rather lop-sided amount of this horrible survival-of-the-fittest mentality.
Martial law. MArshall law is the rules governing the guys by the ropes at the Freeport-McMoRan Classic.
“May I ask, where is your outrage over the fact that President Bush cut funding to maintain the levees?”That was a couple of days ago. I got slammed for that post, too.
And, um, as far as civil law vs. vigilante law, the escalation in looting that we’re seeing here is the result of a collapse of civil law. I don’t suggest that police or National Guardsmen confront looters with a conciliatory tone of voice saying, “Excuse me, Mr. Impoverished Looter, I understand that you were unable to evacuate and that government should have provided you with the means to evacuate, but I have to place you under arrest.”
Citizens have the right to defend themselves, and shooting looters has been a long-standing practice in this country during times of great civil unrest. And had the initial crackdown been brutal and uncompromising, we wouldn’t be seeing the current problem.
I imagine the looters of unnecessary goods are going to be delt with in due time. Get the inocent out of harms way then deal with the outlaws, it’ll be easier. ord for bid hostage situations occuring! Where can they go? they’re stuck for a while and they can’t be rescued with all their “stuff”, well I take that back….small items, jewelry and weapons can be conceled.
but understand too, that the looters are not aware of any of the news information, unless they’re smart enough to find a battery operated radio. They have no clue the enormous forces they are going to be dealing with. I doubt it will fare too well with many in our country or around the world if they are point blank shot down. Now shot after being shot at is another story, and that is gonna happen. I do imagine the seriously dangerous hard core looters will be armed and will try to defend themselves and their loot. Me thinks many are going to suffer of face the consequences of their choices.
Imagine the indignation when an evacuated looter returns to Calliope and finds that their “loot” has been relooted by someone else . . . dang, there is a funny side to this. Thanks for showing me the way to that one, MH. :)
Are you people serious? A parent stealing food for their kids? What was that parent doing last weekend when they should have been leaving town, or if they couldn’t leave, preparing for the storm that was bearing down on them? (ie stocking up on food…) And are you to have me believe that they are stealing TV’s for their kids too? What happens when a parent decides his kids need food more than some other poor sap’s do? Once the stores are empty these people will turn on each other… And what about the reports of the looting spreading with the refugee’s to Baton Rouge and other towns? Lets get this straight, it’s opportunism at its worst and five or ten thousand years of human history have come up with one way to stop it. What exactly do you think the term Martial Law means anyway? What are we to do about these gangs of armed thugs that are attacking hospitals? I’m pretty sure they’re not there to steal narcotics for their children…
I can’t believe the amount of airtime and energy devoted to looters. The loss of some remaining property is insignificant when compared with the imminent death of thousands stranded in the city. Once again the media blows everything out of proportion. You are looking at the world through a very distorted lens and you don’t even know it. (you being the american people) Try watching the BBC or CBC sometime.
Joe B.
You hit it on the head if it dosen’t stop now what then??????????????
James, it isn’t about the property. It is about the lack of dignity and lack of consideration for the larger community that is at issue. New Orleans is largely occupied, at the moment, by people who were “too smart” “too cool” or “too stupid” to leave.
They knew the storm *always* turned and spared GNO.
They thought the “party” and claim to “riding out the big one” made it worth standing in harm’s way.
They can’t be bothered to know what is going on, or to be responsible for themselves or their children by staying informed.
No, no. And for every fool in a house attic we will fly a helicoptor mission to save them. Because saving the fool is placing the community first, even if the fool will not.
The idea behind America, behind western civilization, is that we are better than the law of the jungle.
I decided that reading the response to these posts would help me determine whether I could return to New Orleans. If there ever is a New Orleans again (and I certainly hope there will be). It disgusts me that people have become fixated on murdering looters. The looting of commercial goods has been sensationalized; most looting is for food and water. And if people want to take tennis shoes, so be it! Hell, I don’t even care if people take stuff from my house. Maybe if it isn’t completely flooded, people can drink the water and food I left behind. At this point, I have written my belongings off and am focusing on what is most important: saving human life, not taking it. All governmental energy should be spent on rescuing people, getting them out of New Orleans. I am incredibly fortunate, like all of you, to be sitting at a computer right now. You do not see the majority of Orleanians–who live in dire poverty– responding to this blog. How can anyone sitting in comfort at a computer right now recommend murder over a pair of tennis shoes and jeans?
MSNBC just ran a segment of a reporter talking to a cop who was looting the WalMart . . . evidently the recruitment standards of the NOPD are unchanged from the times of Arnesto Taylor . . . NOPD: Crooks with Badges. :(
So JD, where, exactly, do you draw your line of acceptable crime? If you want, we can send these folks over to take your computer . . . and your shoes.
Ever been carjacked? Huh?
If the majority of New Orleanians live in dire poverty — an exaggeration, only one in five receives public assitance — then perhaps the damn place ought to be allowed to sink in the sea, because for all of its art and architecture and music and culture and cultural diversity and fine food, it is a socially and economically unjust place that exploits the poor.
Blaming Bush for not funding the levees? Come on! You yourself said in your post that all your life these levees have been set to fail in an event such as this. Now as far as I can recall, Mr. Bush has not been president for 34 years.
How about just questioning the decision-making of POLITICIANS? They’ve been ignoring this impending doom for years.. through NUMEROUS administrations. This is not something you can pin on one person or one administration. This is the culmination of years of group denial, folks! If you live/lived in the city and were not active in pursuing a “solution” to the levee problem, you’re as guilty as anyone.
No, what pisses me off is that these looters have no respect for human life or property - it angers me greatly that people trapped in uptown have to fear for their lives not from disease or flooding, but from people running around with 12 gauge shotguns and a chip the size of the Superdome on their shoulders. Did you actually read the link I posted?
It’s EXCELLENT food for thought.
James B,
Unfortunately looting plays a very significant role in disasters like this and we have every right to not only see it on the news, but be outraged by it. It is this exact scenario (massive, violent looting) that caused people to not want to evacuate and leave their houses and belongings behind. So, stuff like this is creates a sort of circular problem. And, it’s not the “loss of some remaining property” that matters so much. It’s the chaos, the lawlessness and disorder that makes an already awful situation that much worse.
I listen to the BBC every night on the radio and it’s a great news service, however they have done a shit job reporting on Hurricane Katrina. Until today their main focus was the price of oil, which is, with out a doubt important but not nearly as important as the more immediate, direct impact on human life.
7:32 Oct. 31, 2005 N.O. Mayor Ray Nagin declares Martial law in the city and directs the city’s 1,500-person police force to do “whatever it takes” to gain back control of the city. He will also enlist the aid of troops.>>>>
Joe B. I would give anything to see the look on your face when the looters start shooting back - at you….
If your baby was hungry and sick you would loot too. I know I would. How dare you suggest shooting desperate people for looting. People down in nola have obviously lost their minds, but so would you and I. Of course the gun toting looters should be stopped, but come on.
Nannette,
The vast majority of the looting seems to be armed gangs roaming the city, shooting at cops and innocent bystanders. WWL reported that a nurse who stepped outside Memorial today was robbed at gunpoint. A cop was shot in the head last night trying to prevent the continued theft of non-emergency items. How can THAT be excused?
No one here, I am sure, supports shooting people who are trying to scavenge to save their families. But this has quickly devolved into a much, much more dire situation. There is a marked difference between running into Walgreen’s to grab water and food, etc., and running into people’s stores on Canal to steal electronics. Unfortunately, the latter is currently more common than the former - with deadly results.
Nannette, if I had a baby, I would have left town.
Actually, I did, come to think of it.
I somehow doubt that any cop who was in the city for the reign of superpredator murders in the 1990s — 1,500 homicides in four years — will be shocked at armed looters firing back . . .
You are right Caiti.
What happen to respect Being a Help to you’r Borther or Sister NOT SUB HUMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Something is REALLY wrong with Joe B. In a situation like this, anyone that believes property is more valuable than human life needs to shoot themselves. Looters are an aside to a footnote of perhaps the largest human and economic disasters in US history.
It’s easy to say “shoot!” when it’s “them.” But
order will not be restored when people are summarily shot. Fear and insecurity will increase.
This is the opposite of social order in a democratic society. If you want an authoriarian dictatorship move to North Korea!
Our property (at least everything I own)is gone.
People that call for executing people mostly looting diapers, water, and food have NEVER experienced the kind of hardship those still in the city are facing.
I think I know where Joe B’s anger must come from. The social fabric is gone. We cannot look out for one another, we yearn for things to be the way they were: food, water, shelter, work, neighbors, friends, everyday morals and ethics, ability to help those in our social networks, and what formerly passed for law and order in New Orleans (never perfect to begin with). But things will not be anything like they were anytime soon. Maybe never. Dead bodies are floating in my neighborhood. Ambulances, fire, and police cannot react normally. Most people are trying to do what they can to survive. Certainly
a modicrum of “order” as Joe suggests must be restored for cleanup. That is months away.
I cannot even totally blame the people stealing “valuables” from stores, at least not any more than I blame Joe for his incitement to state-sponsored murder. These are people who have lost everything- their home, friends, family. They no longer have a compass. In a world where people value money over human need, their logic is really not so different than Joe B’s: property is the most important thing… even more than life.
Now, I can blame those that will put the life of others directly in danger: car jackers, murderers, etc.
Spending time tracking down or punishing looters just distracts from emergency evacuation efforts.
Perhaps the only thing Joe B said that is true is that “Some of those people waiting to be rescued will probably die waiting, because of looters.” Yes, people will die because sensationalizing news outlets, local, and state government are making more than it is.
Half of the Louisiana National Guard is in Iraq.The kind of order that Joe B cannot and will not be maintained through his toy machismo. A
person who is safely typing on his keyboard while our friends in the city starve to death or drown trying to get to a place they can find food or potable water should recognize the situation.
I’m glad you all are safe enough to read this. Let’s hope the best for our friends and neighbors…I have at least half a dozen friends that didn’t get out and are unaccounted for…
Robert Caldwell
“Once we get the 3,000 National Guardsmen here, we’re locking this place down,” Mayor Ray Nagin said. “It’s really difficult because my opinion of the looting is it started with people running out of food, and you can’t really argue with that too much. Then it escalated to this kind of mass chaos where people are taking electronic stuff and all that.”
Amid the chaos Wednesday, thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a pharmacy. The crowd stormed the store, carrying out so much ice, water and food that it dropped from their arms as they ran. The street was littered with packages of ramen noodles and other items.
Looters also chased down a state police truck full of food.
The New Orleans police chief ran off looters while city officials themselves were commandeering equipment from a looted Office Depot. During a state of emergency, authorities have broad powers to take private supplies and buildings for their use.
Robert, I don’t think Joe is putting property above life . . . but I think the opportunistic of these looters are doing exactly that, placing property above life . . . when information starts to flow on this thing, you’ll hear about extortion, robbery, thuggery, and attmepted rape and attempted murder, rape and murder. When law enforcement won’t defend property, those who don’t respect property will move on to the next point of disrespect, of human life.
Of what value is the life of a theif, a rapist, a murderer?
Holly et al - you are just not getting it. What’s on TV is NOT reality. It’s just a glimpse of one tiny part of one scene played in an endless loop that is sickening after the 3rd repetition. I know this will come as a huge shock but what happened to New Orleans happens every day somewhere in the world hence the world’s difficulty in making it front page news everyday.
Keith, Beer is ALWAYS a necessity.
My father lost everything in Ivan last year. When he returned to his home looters were picking thru his belongings. These people are not after essentials to live. They are looking to gain at someone else’s expense and misfortune. How hard is it going to be to clean NO up without having gun battles with local gangs of looters trying to keep their control over an area.
Looters should have one warning shot in the air, the next one should be in their ear. If they can carry a tv or break into a video store, they are strong and able enough to get out of town. The only thing to keep them from leaving is the prospect of getting the game boy they always wanted.
As far as insurance goes, when they start taking personal items, they people who owned them will never get they money for it. In Hurricane Ivan, you had show receipts or take a photo of the damaged item.
How are store owners going to prove to their insurance co. what their inventory was? To assume they will get paid just because they have insurance is ignorant. The insurance companies are going to take a huge hit and they will lowball everyone so they can pay out the very least. They are, after all, a business that has to answer to its stockholders.
How many of the stolen guns are going to be used to commit a crime once life gets back to ‘normal’. How many lives will be lost because someone stole guns and bullets?
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
I can almost guarantee you, the looters are surprised by the non-action of the authorities.
Unfortunately, it’s too late for the shoot to kill policy. The looters are now armed, they are desparate and hungry and pissed. I would not want to be in a uniform in NO in the next few weeks.
What would all you soft butts sitting at your computers do if you were hungery..?!? Get over it! The food is a loss, people are more imporant, and hell everyone needs a TAG watch. As for the “Thugs”… maybe they will all get sick and die! Now there is an upside to a bad storm after all.
Can I get this link to work…(warning, massive racism and obscenty-well, not as much as The Aristocrats, but still…)
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=52383
I’m going to shut up and go get some beer….
My husband and I left with family and out of state guests, he is going back against my wishes to staff one of the surronding facilities that have only generators, as he is an emergency room doctor. His co-workers are currently trapped in the middle of the city and locking themselves in the hospital emergency room with no electricity, secondary to looters, drug seekers Where the hell is the National Guard!! The looters are scum, and these people in the areas you are seeing on television where scum before this from my observations in the Quarter. Shoot the son of a bitches, they are and have always been parasites in this city, with only a few trying to not live for the next drug fix and can of beer.
“Keith, Beer is ALWAYS a necessity.”
lol there Samus . . . but who ever heard of putting in beer *after* the hurricane?
Real simple….shoot the bums
James B,
With all due respect I do not require you to fill me in as to what is reality and what is not. Yes, the news is repetetive. Yes, bad things happen all the time all over the world and people deal with it. What is your point?
Did you apply the same criticism to the BBC’s constant, non-stop coverage of the London terrorist attacks or do you reserve your pompous self rightuosness for American tradgedies only.
It is normal for everyone here to be expressing their sadness, their sense of loss and their sympathies and even their outrage. If you tire of reading it please feel free to check out The Onion, which is always good for a laugh.
Umm, where are the looters taking all their booty? They don’t have homes anymore!! LOL!
FOR GOD’S SAKE, LOOTERS ARE LOOTERS. WE ARE ALL RUNNING OUT OF ANYTHING WE HAD. WHEN WE CAN, POOL OUR RESOURCES. WE MUST REMAIN HUMAN BEINGS WITH SOME SEMBLENCE OF DIGNITY. YES WE NEED THE BASICS, BUT, WHERE THE HELL DO WE TAKE THEM.
OK, shoot at sight…I agree
I am proud iraqi and have shot (at) many americans too that come looting my country
The looting will get worse, and it will indeed progress to violence soon. Those gangs have a lot of old scores to settle, I’m sure. And if they happen to run into a young woman while on the way to some criminal engagement, why not do a little gang-raping on the side? Arson is a great way to get rid of evidence after a burglary operation. So is murdering witnesses. This is not just speculation. New Orleans has a long history of carjacking and home invasion, even during normal times. It will be weeks before the full story is out on how bad things are now–but I’m sure they are much worse than the media is letting on.
The only thing these thugs understand is force. I say send the Police and National Guard around day and night. Anyone who acts suspicious, arrest them and throw them into some sort of fetid holding tank, the more uncomfortable the better–and there are plenty of places like that in New Orleans right now. Anyone who resists arrest, let ‘em have it with the 50 caliber machine gun on those armored personal carriers. A curfew would also be nice, with armored helicopters flying around, ready to gun down anyone on the streets when they aren’t supposed to be there.
I am from New Orleans and live in Pa now. UNTIL ANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION IT IS IN OUR INSTINCT> So what if they are taking food and water and things they need. TV’s and all those clothes and shoes….They really do not need as much as food and water. So please keep your stupid comments on this to your self if they are not intelligent. Until you have been there…You have NO clue what you would do. Be true to yourself on this one at least. REALLY!
The last thing that anyone needs to be worried about is looters, we’re losing focus on the main thing at the moment, that is saving the ones that remain trapped and have no way out. We ought to be thankful for life, help, and strength because there were many unfortunate who did not even make it through all of this. Come on people, we have to pull together and be here for each other, and not condone each other. This situation is a very desperate one for looters, and anyone that’s not in the condition that some of these looters are facing with babies crying because they are hungry, or whatever, then there shouldn’t be any need for any comments. Let’s pull together and build each other and not tear each other down, there is a message in all of this…
jake, you’re a fool for the media. i think if you think about it, surely the media had any evidence of more disorder and violence in NOLA right now, they would show it. do you have ANY evidence showing the TV media to ever show restraint? what are you thinking, honestly. the first network to show film of people dying in NOLA, sadly, will have its ratings shoot through the roof. so don’t be an idiot.
now i will NOT get all bleeding heart here. the only good excuse the police had for not intervening to this point was the inabnility to detain or care for prisoners. Obviously (since they ARE citizens) murdering them is unacceptable, but now that the reinforcements and APCs and other temporary detention facilities are arriving it is time to establsh order. This means going corner to corner, door to door, with guns, getting EVERYONE not in uniform off the streets and into shelters, and of course detaining all looters. if they want to fire back, we’ll have to assume the Nat’l Guardsmen are better trained.
Also, WAKE UP, the War in Iraq is a SHAM and a clear diversion of valuable supplies from where it is needed. There should have been airlifts and troops in NOLA from day two, at the LATEST.
Notice how its all negroes who are doing the looting?
Its New Orleans, Nick-you were expecting maybe the Tong to be out in force, or maybe roving bands of Krishnas? Hmmm-Krishnas….the orange robes would make them easy to shoot…
The reality of the situation is the bleeding hearts who say have compassion and let the looters have the city are the very people who would scream the loudest if the looters were on their doorstep. Deadly force is the only solution, the mayor and Governor have let the law abiding citizens down and created this disgusting criminal atmosphere. Begin a shoot on sight policy and kill as many as possible until they get the message loud and clear.
Food and water is one thing but guns or tangible property that is looted should be paid for with blood.
I don’t have a problem with looters taking food or other necessities. Stores wouldn’t be able to sell that stuff anyway when they return (in flood or fire, food stuffs must be destroyed). However, the looters who break into jewlery stores or pharmacies (to get their drug fix), should be shown no mercy. They are merely trying to capitalize on other people’s misery. Society would definately be better off without them. Try to apprehend them without force, but if they fail to comply, use whatever force necessary.
Amd I agree that armed looters should be shot on sight (or at least shot at). There is no reason for anyone to be roaming around brandishing weapons in clear sight, except for the police or NG. No one should be carjacking someone else at gunpoint. No one should be driving around in stolen vehicles performing drive by shootings. Yet all these things ARE happening and they need to be stopped immediately. If that means using violent force, then violent force needs to be authorized.
I also can’t believe that some idiots are trying to pin all this on George Bush. Rub two brain cells together and see if you can get your brain working again. The simple fact of the matter is that it isn’t the federal government’s responsibility to support the infrastructure of ANY individual city. The American taxpayers are not responsible for maintaining NOLA. The city must be responsible enough to sustain itself. Any money received from the Feds should just be treated as a bonus, not an essential source of funding. If NOLA finds itself in a budget crisis, then it is up to the LA state government to bail them out.
The city officials of NOLA are where the blame should be pointed for the levee breaks, not George Bush. They have neglected their duties for several terms to get NOLA in the shape it is in. Instead of revitalizing parks, giving tax kickbacks to businesses, fronting money for the Superdome, etc.; this money should have been spent on improving the levee system.
Some people make it sound like George Bush walked in one day, picked up a ledger and started marking off line items out of the budget. It doesn’t work that way people! GB doesn’t balance the budget. He isn’t smart enough for that! It was teams of people that cut the budget, and old George just went along with what he was told.
loot food, water, diapers, supplies—fine
loot tv, jewelry, etc—shoot ‘em
besides what are these assholes going to do with a tv? there’s no electricity!
dumbasses
The problem with looting….chaos. I swear my heart breaks thinking that the evacuation process of the people from the superdome has been suspended because someone, armed with a gun looted from Wal Mart actually shot at an Army helicopter involved in the rescue mission. Pathetic. People are dying. People need medical attention and they are stuck in the superdome because order has comletely broken down.
So, there’s the problem with looting. This is not about T.V.s, DVDs or whatever else. This is certainly not about survival. This is about total breakdown of order.
Holly - you’re dead on.
You miss the point. The thousands of people who heeded the call to evacuate left with the idea that their property would be protected. If government allows the society to decend to anarchy, the next time an evacuation is called, people will NOT evacuate and the problems exacerbated. It is not just WalMart being ripped off, there are professional thieves right now going through the high rises stealing art, valuables, information, securities.
I thought the same “Where are they taking this stuff?” But I hear now the West side of the river is dry and the bridges are open. They need to set up check points and keep the flow of traffic in one direction. Face it, these turds are immigrating in and taking advantage of a BAD situation - they don’t deserve due process.
Symbolically, all over Katrina
Adolf,
Use the internet for something other spewing you narrow view. A google for “science+accomplishments+black americans” might be a better use for your computer. You’ll find hours of reading - or for you - days.
“they’re only taking food and water and diapers, really, the vast majority, it’s for the children!”
Uh, I have a friend of a friend trapped inside her house now down there. Totally dry area now - she was lucky. She could evacuate, but won’t because she’s afraid of the carjackers. Would rather stay in her house where there’s “lots of guns.” Is someone taking the CARS of LEAVING REFUGEES doing it for their kids? Really now.
It’s not just about diapers and food. It’s about opportunists. When you hear reports about armed gangs, something’s gotten out of control. There is a law enforcement agency running New Orleans right now, and it is the looting gangs.
I’m usually an evil left-wing liberal, but I agree - one warning shot, then one business shot. The majority of people aren’t looting - they’re sitting scared of the looters. It’s ridiculous to say “loot in peace” when the looting has turned into breaking into other peoples’ houses and depriving THEM of the resources they need to keep their own families alive. I would not care so much if it was just food, water, shoes and maybe an Xbox or two, because we’re fallible. But this has turned into madness and animalistic behavior.
And why is half the LA National Guard guarding oilwells in Iraq when there’s trouble at home? Bring the troops home now - bring them home so they really CAN defend America’s freedom.
To put my comments in perspective, you should know that I’m a native New Yorker who lived through 9/11, and saw exactly how the politicos handled an unbearable situation. My fiance was born and raised in New Orleans, and left just 2 years ago to live in NY with me. We have family still living in the city. Her parents are refugees in Baton Rouge, and one of her brothers is still missing/incommunicado as I type this.
It is so incredibly obvious to me that the very first thing you need to do at a time like this is establish order. Chaos and anarchy will cause many innocent people to die unnecessarily. The looting debate seems to balance between those who feel that essential goods - food, water - can be looted , while those taking tv’s and guns should be shot.
In my opinion, the VERY FIRST thing the mayor should have done was to give strict orders to arrest, by force if necessary, all looters. CONTROL the situation. Imagine what might have happened if looters ran rampant in downtown Manhattan - they didn’t, because the political/policing force were instantly mobilized to prevent it.
For me, the responsibility for all of this lies COMPLETELY with the political/organizational powers in who are allegedly in charge of the city. Martial Law gives the police and/or National Guard the power to commandeer any goods or items that are deemed necessary for the execution of their mission. Therefore, what they SHOULD have done - almost immediately - was to commandeer the K-Marts and grocery sytores. Place 2 armed officers at varius locations, and then , PEACEFULLY distribute the contents to those in need.
And yes, arrest, or shoot, looters. This action would have deterred, or at least put some fear, into the criminal looting element, and the word that distribution of goods was being handled would have brought a LOT more peace of mind to a crazy situation.It may have prevented guns from being looted, and it would have alleviated the terrot that friends of mine are now experiencing as they huddle inside their homes. I know this, because we have friends who left their Garden District home on Wednesday to assess the neighborhood, and within 5 minutes, saw a pickup truck full of armed men, backing up to an antique store. They immediately turned around and returned home, fearing for their lives. Isn’t the situation bad enough without the government acquiescing to this type of bullshit???
By not acting, the Mayor and/or Governor has only added to the anarchy and lawlessness that exacerbates a horrible NATURAL disaster, allowing it to take on elements of a disaster caused by HUMAN BEINGS. In my opinion, that is simply inexcusable leadership.
Leadership - from where I sit Cheech and Chong would be better than these two. The mayor is on ludes and the governor is on the edge of tears - unreal. I predict this will be their last terms with the exception of jail when they discover the levee break was a result of cronyism.
I’m reading this blog safely from germany since the hurricane’s landfall. And I feel very depressed 2 see NO sink, and 2 read about Ur worries and fears. I wish U a lot of strength, calmness and urban solidarity 2 stand the whole situation.
But I’ve 2 say, some of you guys (and girls) are really mindsucking. This discussions (like in this thread i.e.) are no comparsion to community-talks in Londons metblog i.e. after the bombings, or to discussions in different blogs during the asian tsunami. The focus on loosing some goods via looting, the violent fantasies about cheap and brutal revenges and the sometimes even racist point of view of some posters are very disgusting.
I can’t say, what’s more pityful for the more open-minded and thoughtful posters of this blog - to rebuild NO after the desaster, or to be forced to rebuild it together with people like the violent and racist fools, who would like 2 declare civil-war on looters.
Have you ever asked, why urban and civil behaviour collapses in such a short term? Couldn’t it depend on the kind of society, where someone lives and on the actual role-models of a society?
Have you ever tried to imagine, what it is like 2 be too poor, to leave a sinking boat at the right moment?
Is it possible for you to ask, how it comes, that there are weapons could have been stolen at a Walmart? We just buy food and beverage in our stores like this. There are simply no weapons to be stolen at a Walmart in the city… Each society gets what it is…
You seem to live in a very strange kind of country, I think. Very good people caged together with some very weird and crazy folks…
My heart ist with all of the urban and tolerant people, who are posting in metblog NO. Don’t let the fascists overrule you - they just try to take hateful advantages of the desaster - the violent gangs AND the wannabe rednecks - on both sides.
Frank
“Lived through 9/11″ You mean you were in the towers?
9/11 doesn’t have diddly-squat on this . . . 9/11 didn’t produce 1.4 million homeless and destroy tens of billions of dollars of real property, hundredsof thousands of homes, flatten four cities , and disrupt a quarter of the nation’s oil supply. There is no comparison possible in the American experience.
You sound like Mr. Eldridge, the Andrea Doria “survivor” on Seinfeld. Sorry, NYC. You get no context on this, even if you surfed down the wreckage of the towers as they fell.
People that LOOT make me feel embarrassed to be a human being.
Human DIGNITY and a sense of community CAN guide an individual and elevate their actions above animalistic behavior. People have done it successfully in the past, it is not beyond our ability.
Abandoning complete “PREOCCUPATION” with the needs of only oneself is possible and is what is needed in a time of crisis. A society begins with only a handful of people. People with intergrity don’t need a policeman with a gun to make them behave.
Regardless of one’s financial status or race, such character CAN be shown, as a matter of fact some of the most “self-less human beings” that have walked the face of the earth were neither rich, nor white.
The people that stayed behind in NOLA had the opportunity to show the best of humanity.
“Together we stand, divided we fall” - I am sickened to know which manner of behavior has been chosen.
If we had a natural diaster where I lived, anyone who tried to loot me would be shot. Pure and simple. As Americans, we have the right to bear arms and protect our homes and family. If you’re stupid enough to want to steal, you’re gonna be dead or close to it if you try to rob me.
I’ve read most of the posts here concerning the looting situation. It will eventually all turn into anarchy if nothing is done to prevent any further lawlessness,regardless of racial or economic issues.
When a few thugs get away with crimes and others see it, the mindset quickly sets in that its perfectly ok. It will spread like a cancer, infecting all it touches.
Although I am a firm beleiver in humanity, there has to be a line drawn at some point.
The law actually has an answer for the looting discussion. Under both Louisiana and Mississippi law there is an “essential-to-sustain-life” defense that excuses looting when the looting involves the essentials of survival - water, some foodstuffs, some clothing items, and, situationally, things like medicine (both OTC and prescription) and other things.
In effect the “looting” of these types of items, when emergency conditions exist, is not looting at all - and that’s what the state law says in both of these venues.
By all means, invoke and follow the rules and constraints of martial law (shoot to kill, if the looters of TVs, jewelry, etc.), but don’t shoot people who aren’t looting, by their own states’ definition.
Wow. I feel really bad for everyone who has lost something there. But I’m also really happy I don’t live in your country. and I’m not talking about hurricanes now. How can someone even think that the solution is to shoot people immediately (even under martial law) and get support from others is something I will never understand. I *want* to think that it comes from all the distress you’ve been through, but I doubt it. Yes, I know you think you are the empirors of the world, and you probably are… but wake up, you lack humanity. I’m glad that not everyone agrees with you. There’s still hope for a peaceful world.
can’t believe more people are worried about what’s been taken out of rite aid and walmart when the focus should be caring for survivors! one way or another, these businesses will be reimbursed whether they have insurance or not. there’s no guarantee that the looters or anyone taking diapers and water will be compensated for their losses. removing guns out of a store isn’t the right thing, but shooting the individual is much worse and will cause further disruption. how on earth can you even suggest this at this time? most people are getting essentials from these stores. i would do the same thing!!!